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Hydrogen, batteries and *The Future*
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1086
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and making sure there are no naked flames about.


Or, naked 'old' flames...for that matter... Smile Smile
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DM



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 174
Location: North Cornwall

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minxy wrote:

The electric car we are considering can be fast charged in 45 minutes at 50kW.


Is your house supply capable of supplying 50Kw ?

A normal household single phase supply is usually 16.5Kw.
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Minxy



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 218
Location: West Northants

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DM wrote:
Minxy wrote:

The electric car we are considering can be fast charged in 45 minutes at 50kW.


Is your house supply capable of supplying 50Kw ?

A normal household single phase supply is usually 16.5Kw.


Fast chargers are the ones you see in car parks and service stations, at home you charge at about 7kW the idea being you can charge, if necessary, overnight to 100% this will, depending on the car, take you circa 200 mile ( a lot more with a new vehicle) If you are doing a greater mileage you top up at a fast charger if you are in a hurry, or something less aggressive if you have time.
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

47Jag wrote:
I personally canít see the attraction of converting a classic car to electric. I mean, what our hobby is all about is keeping ancient machines running, against all odds at some times.


Art


Art, I'm sure you are correct and in the majority.
Not looking very hopeful for the survival of old cars, is it.
Mike
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3942
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Minxy wrote:
take you circa 200 mile ( a lot more with a new vehicle)


In daylight, when the weather is such that you don't need wipers, heater or air-con. preferably in a country which doesn't require daylight running lamps.
Try night time, torrential rain/heavy snow/fog etc.
Then how far will it go?
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Minxy



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 218
Location: West Northants

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Penman wrote:
Hi
Minxy wrote:
take you circa 200 mile ( a lot more with a new vehicle)


In daylight, when the weather is such that you don't need wipers, heater or air-con. preferably in a country which doesn't require daylight running lamps.
Try night time, torrential rain/heavy snow/fog etc.
Then how far will it go?


Er.......a bit less, itís an electric car! Canít remember the last time I drove at night with all four seasons being thrown at me though. Smile

Interestingly the countries with the greatest uptake of electric cars are some of the coldest
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Minxy"]
Penman wrote:
Hi
Minxy wrote:
take you circa 200 mile ( a lot more with a new vehicle)


In daylight, when the weather is such that you don't need wipers, heater or air-con. preferably in a country which doesn't require daylight running lamps.
Try night time, torrential rain/heavy snow/fog etc.
Then how far will it go?


Er.......a bit less, itís an electric car! Canít remember the last time I drove at night with all four seasons being thrown at me though. Smile

Interestingly the countries with the greatest uptake of electric cars are some of the coldest[/quote



Don't EV,s have a separate dedicated battery for running the lights, wipers etc?
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Minxy



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 218
Location: West Northants

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Miken"]
Minxy wrote:
Penman wrote:
Hi
Minxy wrote:
take you circa 200 mile ( a lot more with a new vehicle)


In daylight, when the weather is such that you don't need wipers, heater or air-con. preferably in a country which doesn't require daylight running lamps.
Try night time, torrential rain/heavy snow/fog etc.
Then how far will it go?


Er.......a bit less, itís an electric car! Canít remember the last time I drove at night with all four seasons being thrown at me though. Smile

Interestingly the countries with the greatest uptake of electric cars are some of the coldest[/quote



Don't EV,s have a separate dedicated battery for running the lights, wipers etc?


They do still have a Ďregularí battery under the bonnet yes to power the 12 volt system but on a long trip in cold adverse weather Penman is quite correct that range would be reduced.
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DM



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 174
Location: North Cornwall

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a 20% decrease in range due to cold weather.

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-cars-cold-weather-tips/
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Minxy



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 218
Location: West Northants

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DM wrote:
Looks like a 20% decrease in range due to cold weather.

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-cars-cold-weather-tips/


I believe some are better than others it depends on whether they have active battery management ( heaters to warm them when cold, coolant to cool them when hot) or passive management( heat sink from ambient air around the battery). Some can be as high as 30%. This compares with around 12% on an internal combustion engine ( yes it even affects your conventional car)
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minxy wrote:
DM wrote:
Looks like a 20% decrease in range due to cold weather.

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-cars-cold-weather-tips/


I believe some are better than others it depends on whether they have active battery management ( heaters to warm them when cold, coolant to cool them when hot) or passive management( heat sink from ambient air around the battery). Some can be as high as 30%. This compares with around 12% on an internal combustion engine ( yes it even affects your conventional car)
How

That's a good point Minxy. I ran a diesel Berlingo for 9 years. On the drive to work in the summer it would do 55mpg. In the winter about 50. It also took about 3 miles to get up to temperature during which I didn't run the heater or it took even longer.
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Rusty



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

47Jag wrote:
I personally canít see the attraction of converting a classic car to electric. I mean, what our hobby is all about is keeping ancient machines running, against all odds at some times.


I "shudder" every time I see prince Harry on the TV driving his electric E type, it just misses the point ! Out here we have a chap who does electric conversions on all sorts of vehicles and he drives (or used to, don't know if he still has it) a mid 60s electric Ford Mustang, and I am sorry, but hearing it glide silently past is just "Wrong".
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Minxy



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 218
Location: West Northants

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rusty wrote:
47Jag wrote:
I personally canít see the attraction of converting a classic car to electric. I mean, what our hobby is all about is keeping ancient machines running, against all odds at some times.


I "shudder" every time I see prince Harry on the TV driving his electric E type, it just misses the point ! Out here we have a chap who does electric conversions on all sorts of vehicles and he drives (or used to, don't know if he still has it) a mid 60s electric Ford Mustang, and I am sorry, but hearing it glide silently past is just "Wrong".


I agree 100%......but in x amount of years time would you rather see that mustang glide past silently or not see it at all?
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Minxy



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 218
Location: West Northants

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the OPís question.
It doesnít take long on good old google to come up with companies that supply all the basic generic ingredients to convert a vehicle, motors, battery packs, chargers etc etc. There is no separate gearbox with an electric motor just a single speed forward and back Ďcogí so the output coupling just needs connecting to your prop shaft. Hydrogen could also be employed but would obviously need all the extra hardware that this encompasses on top. From an engineering perspective it would first appear to be relatively strait forward.
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alanb



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 337
Location: Berkshire.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever type of battery used you can't get out more than you put in, so where is all this electricity going to come from? We don't generate enough for our needs now, we have to buy additional supplies in from France and maybe the French won't sell it to us after brexit
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