Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Keith D]

I spent a fantastic afternoon viewing restored classics for sale in Cologne this afternoon.

There were a large number of vehicles displayed by two restoration companies. The standard of restoration was probably the best I have ever seen. Mainly Mercedes and Porsche’s with the odd BMW and Audi thrown in. Panels fitting perfectly, paintwork like mirrors, and beautifully fitted leather work. But the prices!

Late sixties Mercedes 280 convertibles at just under E200,000. To me this seems well over the top. Many of the vehicles were priced over E600,000. A perfect Heinkel bubble car at E28,000. I’m afraid that these prices are way, way over my wallet. The cars are not even rare examples.

These sorts of prices depress me as the cars are obviously going to be purchased mainly for investment and will probably not see the road again. I hope I’m wrong.

What thoughts have fellow enthusiasts have on these prices?

Keith
_________________
1926 Chrysler 60 tourer
1932 Austin Seven RN long wheelbase box sedan
1950 Austin A40 tourer
1999 BMW Z3
Its weird being the same age as old people.
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution

[Ray White]

I can't see how paying over the odds for a classic car makes it a good investment.

Of course what might be happening is an automotive version of the antiques trade where the vehicle is passed from one dealer to the next with a cut being taken at each transfer.

I believe I may have been a victim of this dealer scam when I sold my Dodge at auction.

[lowdrag]

The German workmanship is well known, but the classic market is on the way down, and has been for 18 months now. My E-type, which I'll never sell anyway, has probably "lost" £100,000 over the period. The market is awash with them. Mercedes have a specialist division doing restorations and I feel that any car restored by them will have a price way over the current value, but the restoration will be perfect. I was referred to an interesting article the other day. Have a read here:-

https://wolfstreet.com/2019/09/22/asset-class-of-v...

Some people are sitting on very big losses nowadays. Someone here paid €112,000 at auction for an early E-type, which I refer to as a no-floor model rather than a flat-floor model. It needs at least £100,000 to make it a decent car again and after all that it will be worth about £125,000. The maths just don't add up any more unless you can find a restored car that someone is desperate to sell and take a loss. He asked me to find a buyer in its current condition, but in this market the best offer was £60,000. And that was generous. He is stubbornly sitting on the bridge as the ship goes down awaiting a turn in the market so he can get his money back. I don't think it will happen ever again personally. The baby boomers who have fuelled the rise in prices are now dying off, and the next generation have enough problems on their hands to even think about classic cars. Wither the future, as they say.

[Bitumen Boy]

I can't see it being a bad thing if classic cars return to being simply a hobby rather than an investment or reserve currency for the super-rich. Cars will end up being used on the road which is surely what they're for?

[Ray White]

[Phil - Nottingham]

Well, I have never seen classic or modern cars as an investment> We have always used them and will as long as permitted to do.

When the government of any party finally acheives its aim to have the plebs use public transport or walk any perceived investment potential will disappear including its original cost.

So enjoy now while you still can
_________________
Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[petelang]

At least in Britain we have a "thing" for old modes of transport, hence the number of preserved steam railways, steam traction and old cars and bikes. It is similar but less on the other side of the pond, but there they tend to "customise" and hot rod anything old.
But, I fear in Europe they have a markedly different agenda and do not support tradition and old things and we have seen in amongst these pages, examples where in France they have made it very difficult to operate older vehicles. I think Europeans generally favour more modern and due to environmental pressures may make it extremely difficult in future.
Let's hope that we in UK maintain our leaning towards traditions and preserving the things of the past, and in particular their use as it would be detrimental to put all old technology in museums and out of touch with the kids of today. This may lead to the more "European" way and then we would all be sunk and our way of life the worst for it.

[V8 Nutter]

I met a French man last year who had just bought a Hot Rod in this country, it was strictly speaking illegal here, no mud guards. I asked his wife who was English, so no language problems, how would they cope with the restrictive French laws. Her reply was ignore them and stay away from Paris