Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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47p2
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 2009 Location: Glasgow
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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That leak looks to be coming from the seal.
Is the oil pressure adjustable on the relief valve side? it is on the Rover _________________ ROVER
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Hi John,
Yes, as you say it's coming from the pulley. I did centre the chain case on the pulley spiral but perhaps not well enough. It's ones one of those silly jobs where you're trying to mess around with three little shims between the the pulley and the case.
The oil pressure is adjustable but it's set about right. The problem comes when the engine is fully warmed up. Then the 50 psi drops to 25 psi. It
is possible that the relief valve isn't seating correctly but having looked at it I think it's much more likely to be elsewhere. I am using part synthetic 10 W 40 but I was using fully synthetic 5 W 40 in the old engine and getting 50 cold 35 hot.
Thanks,
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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47p2
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 2009 Location: Glasgow
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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The oil you are using is really too thin for an old engine Peter. Modern oils do not work well with older machinery, possibly one of the reasons for oil leaks on the old engine. Also tolerances were not as close as they are today and a thicker oil fills the voids better without getting too thin.
Originally your car would run on SAE W/30 as my Rover did, today however I use Penrite Classic HPR30 Penrite 20W-60 oil info here
I know you're comparing like for like and the results are not as expected but there are so many factors to be taken into the equation _________________ ROVER
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I know it's pretty thin stuff but what I love about it is that it doesn't break down under stress and it clings to surfaces ready for the next start-up.
The thinness is of course an advantage in getting everywhere especially when cold, which I think is when most wear takes place.
I think the wear reduction far outweighs the leakage issues. (Yes, I've got it in the gearbox too.)
P. _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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47Jag
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bothwell, Scotland
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Peter,
Very well done on the initial settings guesstimate. She fired up on the 3rd push of the button. You've put me to shame. Now that I've escaped from SWMBO's house remodelling I might have a go at getting Nellie awakened from her 33 year slumber (with coolant and everything).
Art |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Art. The carb settings weren't really a good guess. I just transfered the carbs direct from the old engine, so couldn't be too far off.
I must admit I was surprised that she started on third press. That's exactly what the old engine did if it had been unused for a few days.
See http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OKKHV7H96wU
I hope you'll record Nellie's start-up too but not do it in the dark like me.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Trooble a' mill!
So far I've driven the car on two occasions each of 20 miles brisk motoring. On the first I found my oil pressure
to be worse than on the old engine. On the second, I swapped the oil pressure relief valve with that on the old engine
and got no improvement.
When I assembled the new engine I pondered over what to do with sealing the base of the oil pump. The service
manual says don't use a gasket but apply jointing compound. I feared getting bits of compound stuck in my small
end feeds so I decided to use neither gasket nor compound. Anyway, I suspect that was a wrong decision, possibly losing me pressure at the junction so
I thought I'd drop the sump and swap the currently fitted pre-war pump with the bigger postwar one that I have on the old engine.
Now the really nasty bit: When draining the oil I noticed that the first little flow was suspiciously clear. Yes, I've
got water in the oil. So how did that get there I asked myself? It didn't take me long to remember that the new engine
has liners in it. I haven't opened it up yet but I suspect they're the culprits. _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
Last edited by peter scott on Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pigtin
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 1879 Location: Herne Bay
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Did I hear the sound of a staccato 'cello? Hope it's nothing too serious Peter.
Don. _________________ Due to the onset of my mid eighties I'm no longer sprightly and rarely seen in my Austin special. I have written a book though. https://amzn.eu/d/7rwRRqL |
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47Jag
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bothwell, Scotland
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Peter,
What has the fact that the engine has liners got to do with water in the oil? They will be dry liners surely? Am I missing something. The fact that the amount of water was small must be a good-ish sign. It's a shame tho' after all your efforts. I hope the cause is easily cured.
Art |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Don, that was no cello that you heard. It was me screeching.
Art, you are quite right. I had visions of them boring out the block to take the liners and breaking through to the water passages and my first sight when I looked underneath almost confirmed those thoughts. All I could see was a drip of my orange antifreeze on the rim of one of the liners.
However closer inspection showed that the antifreeze was actually coming down from the piston, so it looks like I have a cylinder head gasket problem.
In fact the problem is showing on both number 3 and 4. I did spot earlier that the head nuts are all on piles of washers that shouldn't be there and what's more it has a copper asbestos gasket. I wonder whether someone has replaced the studs with the wrong length or whether the head and block have been substantially shaved?
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
Last edited by peter scott on Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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47p2
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 2009 Location: Glasgow
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Not looking good Peter, can I ask why you changed engines in the firsy place _________________ ROVER
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hi John,
It was to get steel con rods. Looking at the condition of the bearings and bores I figured that at least the bottom end was in good shape. I didn't know anything about the condition of the head but I figured that there was a sporting chance that it would be in good shape too and if not it's not too big a deal to whip the head off and sort it out.
I think what I'll do is leave the sump off for now and take the head off. Once that's sorted I'll fill her up with antifreeze again and just check that I don't have a repeat of the same problem.
I'm taking advice on the oil pump at present.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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After finding coolant seeping down from pistons 3 and 4 I decided to take the head off. A few of the studs were rusted so the head took a bit of persuasion before it would come off. Fortunately a few of the studs came away with the nuts which always helps but one at the back corner refused to let go. The combination of pulling with the engine crane and tapping on a projecting plug eventually did the trick.
The head looks to be free from cracking and I think there is evidence of coolant passing over the gasket in a number of places. Looks like some hot gases have been shared between 3 and 4 also.
You can see a nice little pile of rust at the foot of the stud on the left although this wasn't actually the one that caused me most grief.
The studs that run down the centre of the head are supposed to be waisted (slimmer in the middle) so it's likely that they have all been replaced at some time. A questionable benefit.
_________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
Last edited by peter scott on Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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47Jag
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bothwell, Scotland
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Peter,
That's a real bummer after all your efforts. I thought you had done the head but I've re-read the whole post and see that you didn't. You were talking about what you intend doing with the other head. You are going to get this one skimmed now EH??. Get the machinist to do a very light pass over the head to see if it shows how bad it was. It would be interesting to see if it matches the bad areas on the gasket.
Art |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
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Art,
I knew there was every chance that something would be wrong with the head but I figured it was worth trying. I'll clean it up and put a straight edge on it, likewise the block but if I can't see anything then I'm not going to skim it. I'll probably use Ed's trick of lightly countersinking the stud holes in the head.
I think there has been a bit of botching here because the studs have been replaced but there were varying heights of washer piles under some head nuts and, perchance, there were vast differences in the untightening torques that I had to apply to the various nuts. I suspect that someone torqued up unevenly because some nuts bottomed out on the threads. Then after realising this, they tried to solve it with washers. I think that if I start with correct length studs, a Corrujoint gasket and clean faces then all will be well.
I'll take a look at the valves and probably end up grinding them in.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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