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47p2



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2009
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter it might be worth getting some engineers blue and a piece of plate glass to check the head
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thought.

Thanks John.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having now recovered from a nasty attack of shingles I decided to have a poke around in the garage today and discovered why the head gasket was leaking.

There is a thread insert that has either been left too high or more likely been pulled too high possibly due to the top deck being weaker on account of the fitting of cylinder liners. Sad

As you can see, I rotated it slightly whilst extracting the stud from it.

Peter


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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having taken advice on my proud thread insert the opinion is that it hasn't been pulled up but has simply been badly fitted. So armed with that thought I have added my share of botching but at least the gasket should now stand a better chance of getting the required degree of crush in the key areas.



p.s. I might just put the insert under tension to check that it doesn't rise some more. Shocked

The insert above appears to be the only one that stands proud but if I look at the impressions on the soft copper asbestos head gasket it's clear that several inserts are too high. (There shouldn't be any rings around the arrowed holes.) The one above corresponds to the one arrowed top right in this photo..


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clascar



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 83
Location: mid cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a new comer to this forum and I am catching up with some of the older threads, and ones likes yours Peter. they pop up due to new input. I find this one great reading and resonates with my experiences with more common models of the classic car. I found your method of centralising the timing cover with the front pulley different to mine. There is a special tool for the Rootes engine, not having one, I used ptfe tape wrapped around the pulley until it is a tight sliding fit in the cover. I then fastened down the cover after fitting the pulley temporarily. I then removed the pully and tape and re fitted it. Touch wood it cured my weeping spiral seal. I hope I am not teaching my Granny to suck eggs Ray.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clascar wrote:
I found your method of centralising the timing cover with the front pulley different to mine. I used ptfe tape wrapped around the pulley I hope I am not teaching my Granny to suck eggs Ray.


Absolutely not Ray, That's a much better method than mine and I'm tempted
to re-do it as that was the only leak I had at the front of the engine. Sad



Many thanks,

Peter Very Happy
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ray
The method you describe above reminds me of the clutch centreing tool I made up for my father's Sceptre.

1 piece large dowelling( size<=a fit into the fly wheel centre hole) + a roll of brown paper sticky tape.
Adjust size of dowel for hole, then add more tape to fit the centre plate, then add more tape to fit hole in pressure plate.

I didn't even know you could borrow a proper tool from hire shops.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup! Mine is litterally a broom handle with a couple of inches turned down to spiggot size.

Peter Very Happy
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cleaned up the cylinder head face and all looks good. I had poured white spirit into each combustion chamber and let them sit over-night and sure enough when I came back next day three of them were dry so I took a look at the valves. The inlets looked good so I left them alone and ground in the exhausts on all six.

Having discovered the proud thread insert in the block and seen from the gasket impression that there were others, that although not nearly so high, could do with a shave I tried to extract their studs with a Footprint. Unfortunately I failed to extract some of the outer studs which made Footprint extraction impossible for those lost in the forest so I bought one of those eccentric extractors for use with a socket wrench. Once again I failed as the studs proved to made of sterner stuff than the knurling of the extractor.



I then thought I'd investigate possible methods of reducing the insert height without removing the studs. Not my day this! Sad I cleaned up the insert of one stud only to discover that the deck is cracked between the insert and the two adjacent cylinder liners, and this is also true of the next stud along. Crying or Very sad It looks as if the water leakage has come from the cracks as the top of one of the liners is pitted with corrosion. If the head had not been held up by the proud insert and the gasket had been properly compressed then leakage from the cracks might not have been a problem but the liner corrosion probably removes any chance of effective sealing now.



All in all a big downer. So where do I go from here? Well I think I'll just need to strip both my engines and build-up using the best from the pair.

I suspect this will mean the following:

Cylinder head from new engine
Cylinder block and pistons from old engine
Crank and rods from new engine
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pigtin



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1879
Location: Herne Bay

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy new year Peter. Things can only get better surely Shocked Shocked
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22429
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ooo bad luck there Peter, I remember that sinking feeling when finding various cracks in the Dodge's block Sad

As pigtin says, onwards and upwards in 2009!

Rick
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. As you say, it can only get better from here. Smile

Happy New Year,

Peter Wink
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Greeney in France



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 1173
Location: Limousin area of France

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is only one word for it and I apologise Embarassed BUGGER!!
Onwards and upwards
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47p2



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2009
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear of your plight Peter. 2008 is certainly going out with a bang. This has to have been one of the toughest years ever.

Good luck everyone on the forum for 2009
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your moral support Greeney and 47p2. You've stirred me into action.

The latest plan is to install the crank, steel rods and bearings from the new engine in the crankcase of the old so I've made a start to stripping out the crank and dural rods from the old engine.



However nothing is ever straight forward and the rear main in the old engine uses flanged shells whereas the new engine has plain shells with separate thrust washers. This means that I need to devise some method of retaining the thrust washers as the castings don't currently provide for this.


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