Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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Finch661
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 163 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: octane boosters |
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i have been reading in several magazines about using fuel treatments for classic cars. the MG owners club swear by castrol Valvemaster, but there is also product like STP fuel treatement and Wynns Superpremium petrol.
has anyone used these before, and if so did you notice an increase in mpg and reduction in engine noise as advirtised by the products!
thanks _________________ 1985 Mini Mayfare (1275)
1976 Mg Midget 1500 |
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Ghost
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 75
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:17 am Post subject: |
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It's years since I needed to buy any of this stuff so I'm well out of date, but I'll be interested to see what comes up by way of advice. About 10 years ago I did use something from Morris Oil of Shrewsbury, I bought it at a motorcycle show. The Morris rep was very keen to explain the difference between octane boost and valve stem lubrication in lead free petrol, alas I've forgotten what he said, it was 10 years ago! |
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Finch661
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 163 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: |
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i have done a little bit more research on the various fuel adders. it seems to be that STP is similar to redex, and that it cleans your fuel system and engine out, Wynns seems to increase your fuel from standard to premium and boasts increased mpg and quiter engine noise. Valvemaster is designed for cars that used to run on leaded petrol, and provides a coating for the valves and gives an octane boost to reduce pinking....
still have no clue what would be right for the mg... _________________ 1985 Mini Mayfare (1275)
1976 Mg Midget 1500 |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7113 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: |
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I think the only way you will get improved performance is if you needed to back off your ignition advance on account of pinking and the octane booster permits you to run with more advance.
If valve seat recession is your concern rather than octane boosting then the only additive that is any use is TEL and if you don't use that then you might as well wait until your valves and seats need attention and fit hardened parts at that time.
It is possible to buy TEL but it is frighteningly toxic so you have to be very confident in your protective gear when handling it. Just read the horror stories about its initial manufacture. http://www.cs.radford.edu/~wkovarik/papers/kettering2.html#troubles
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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victor 101
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Posts: 446 Location: East Yorkshire
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Another thing to remember when using fuel additives/boosters is to use one brand only, as different makes have different compounds in them, and according to reports they dont blend well. |
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Rusty
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 202 Location: Bunbury, Western Australia
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Some of these "octane boosters" actualy work, the question is do you need them !
My nephew has a hot V8 Holden (Australian) and he uses an octane booster because the rotten fuel we are given now makes the engine "pink" and possibly even at times "detonate" (much worse than pinking). With a bit of that stuff it runs well with no abnormal noises. If you only have modest compression ratio and pressures you probibaly won't notice any differences, but if it actualy is pinking, running on or detonating try some out, Phil (my nephew) swears by the stuff. Of course its also important to have timing, plugs and distributor advances working the way they should.
Graham |
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Keith D
Joined: 16 Oct 2008 Posts: 1127 Location: Upper Swan, Western Australia
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Why would you need octane boosters for any standard vehicle? Our fuels in Oz are 91 octane for ordinary ULP and 96 Octane for premuim. I understand your octane ratings are higher in the UK. I can understand that if you are racing, then higher octane may be an advantage with higher than standard compression ratios, but even cars built in the 70's and 80's should run OK on octane ratings direct from the pump.
Rusty, General Motors build Holdens, including HSV's, to run on Australian fuels. If your nephew is having problems, then I suggest his car needs attention.
My lifelong experience with cars tells me NEVER to use any "miracle" additives. We were told the end of the world had come when leaded fuel was phased out some ten years ago over here. We were told that we had to use this garbage, or that rubbish with each tank full of petrol. I've used no additives whatsoever and have yet to suffer any problems from the dreadful things are supposed to happen to valves etc. ('26 Chrysler, '28 Morris Cowley, '32 Austin 7, '50 Austin A40 (with BMC 1622cc motor) and '71 VW Kombi)
A number of years ago a product called "Crouse" powder was on the oz market. If your motor was worn, then you pulled out your spark plugs and poured a spoonful of this joke into you cylinders. Put your plugs back in and drive away with an engine that no longer smoked and burnt oil! That is true! And people even bought the stuff!
Water injection has also done the rounds a number of times throughout history. Squirt water into your cylinders and it will improve your fuel economy! Wonder cures in a bottle are always available, but I belong to the old school. There is NO substitute for good engineering!
Sorry folks! This one's got a bit long!!
Keith |
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old gto
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 172 Location: Orlando, Florida
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Keith D wrote: | Wonder cures in a bottle are always available, but I belong to the old school. There is NO substitute for good engineering! |
I have to agree. I drove a 9500 gallon gasoline tanker truck for over 10 years. Here in the US, the only "octane boosters" available to the public do very little to enhance performance.
The additives used by the petroleum companies would be great, IF you could get a hold of them.
I remember a few times when the additive tank was empty, and we had to add it by hand.
One quart per 1000 gallons. We had to record the date & time, load number , destination, then LEAVE the empty bottles behind! The loading rack was also monitored on film, so there was pretty much no way a bottle could disappear without them knowing where it went. _________________ "The only thing I`m sure of.....is that I`m not sure of anything!" |
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Rusty
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 202 Location: Bunbury, Western Australia
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:30 am Post subject: |
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Keith D wrote: |
Rusty, General Motors build Holdens, including HSV's, to run on Australian fuels. If your nephew is having problems, then I suggest his car needs attention.
number of years ago a product called "Crouse" powder was on the oz market. If your motor was worn, then you pulled out your spark plugs and poured a spoonful of this joke into you cylinders. Put your plugs back in and drive away with an engine that no longer smoked and burnt oil! That is true! And people even bought the stuff!
Keith |
Keith, I agree with almost everything you say, "BUT" when I talked about Phills ute being hot, I meant "HOT" ! It is one of the WB utes, very boy racer inhanced and has very high compression modiffied heads, pistons, hot cam, extractors extra large double pumper Holly carb, all the things that my generation used to do 35 years ago but for economy reasons you don't see very much now. The only time he got it to run properley on fuel straight from the pump was when one of his mates gave him some 105 octane aviation fuel, and it liked that. It won't even run properley on "Ultra Premium unleaded" and on anything less it "Detonates"!! He was told about some stuff by one of his mates and it does work, but he has a need for it if he wants to run this vehicle the way it is (personaly I would rather see it standard) but as the body and paint are also done up to a very high standard it doesn't actualy get driven hard very often.
Kids, he will wise up sometime, like we all did.
As for whether you need anything Finch661, I agree with Keith on that, if the engine is not giving you any trouble and the rest of the engine is in good order you will most likely not notice any change at all by using it, but if it is pinking or running on or something else because its got too higher compresion for one reason or another the correct octane booster may help. I can't remember what Phill uses but it is "NOT" one put out by the major suppliers.
As for that stuff you stick down the plughole, I hadn't heard of them using that on petrol engines, but sprinkling a little "Bon Ami" abrasive kitchen cleaner into the air stream of a diesel to de glaze it is an old remedy that I first saw done back in the 60s. It acts like a light hone and can actualy work in a Diesel engine thats been run under light loads at higher revs for long periods causing glazing . I have actually seen it cut extreme oil consumption on 2 Perkins and 1 International tractor engines, and when I first saw the mechanic do it I thought he was crazy. I recon sombody saw it done (like me) and took advantage of people who didn't realise what was trying to be achieved.
Graham |
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Finch661
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 163 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: |
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thanks very much for the replies, it has certainly cleared up a lot on what i should/shouldnt use. the mg has been tuned and is running great without any pinking, so i will leave it alone. my mini has a new(well old but new in my car) 1275 engine, that has been sitting in a garage for a couple of years, so i think some STP or redex should be able to clean it out a bit.
thanks
_________________ 1985 Mini Mayfare (1275)
1976 Mg Midget 1500 |
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Keith D
Joined: 16 Oct 2008 Posts: 1127 Location: Upper Swan, Western Australia
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Hi Graham,
I did qualify myself regarding a "HOT" engine. I wrote:-
Quote: | "I can understand that if you are racing, then higher octane may be an advantage with higher than standard compression ratios....." |
I have heard of the "bon ami" trick to remove bore glazing, but the Crouse Powder merely gummed up rings like you wouldn't believe! Including the oil ring! (For our UK friends, Bon Ami is a fine grit cleaner like Vim in the UK!)
I am told that one particular country Branch of the Veteran Car Club had access to Avgas (Aviation petrol, which contains plenty of lead!) and the members diluted this with 2:1 ULP and had their high compression motors running very well!
My sons all had Chargers back in the early eighties and we spent many a long evening rebuilding them up to E38 standard. The down side was that Plod in unmarked cars parked over the road and pounced on the kids as soon as they drove out of the driveway! The irony of it all was that my kids were very law abiding on the roads (True!) I was the wild one!
Keith |
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