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Rip-off Garages
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Classic Curve



Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Rip-off Garages Reply with quote

Hi all,
I live in Devon, and am interested in contacting anyone that has experienced dealings with rip-off garages.
This certain Classic Car garage charged me over £7500 for a spray job on an already stripped car.
Any coments???
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Ray the rocker



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 187
Location: south wales

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:50 pm    Post subject: post subject Reply with quote

You don`t classify if there were any body panels to repair or whether all panels were stripped from the car?Is there any pics available--before and after? Seems a high price to pay !!Was that the price quoted before the respray or has there been add-ons.I would have asked for gold plate if that was the price .

Cheers--Ray the Rocker...
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peppiB



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 686
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What sort of car was it Shocked Shocked

On a wheeler dealers last year they only paid £2500 for a full respray on a Bentley!! Last year when I was unwell and not able to do a spray job myself, I was quoted at £300 (cash in hand) plus paint to do a fully prepared car. It was another couple of hundred for them to cut back with feracla.

In the end I waited until I was able to do it myself.
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Classic Curve



Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The car was a Lotus Elan. And no it didn't need any repairs....
It was fully stripped, no doors, bumpers, glass etc, 3/4 of it stripped to gel coat.
And no, stupid me, I didn't get a quote.

What a learning curve...
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Ashley



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1426
Location: Near Stroud, Glos

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon an average MKVI Bentley, R Type or Silver Dawn, so standard steel saloon takes 450-500 hours to completely and properly repaint and that this includes stripping out windows, headlining and doors as well as removing the front wings and repairing sills and welding where necessary etc. At £25 an hour which is less than average, this is over £13,000 including VAT but excluding materials which would add getting on for another thousand.

Something like a Light 15 might be a lot less because the trim is more basic, there is no chassis and the body is less complex. Likewise sixties or seventies volume produced cars are faster and easier to work on and would cost far less.

The trouble with respray quotes is that it depends on how much work they include. It could be anything from a blow over to a top flight restoration and once it's done, you don't know for a year or more if it was done properly.

Ash
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Classic Curve



Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The paint work on the job list came to 137 hours, but an assor reconed on 28 hours, having seen the before and after photos, then on inspection of the car he found "foreign bodies on every panel, and areas of thin paint", silicones and bubbling...
"General quality, very poor"
As I said, I live in Devon, and they are a Classic Car specialist..
Don't go there...
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Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22429
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If its really that bad, it might be worth contacting trading standards (and letting the company know that you're planning to).

Rick

PS thanks for no specifics Wink
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3382
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Does the company still have your car, becare about telling them you are going to trading standards etc before you do have possesion.

But if you are not happy, that is deffinateley the way forward!

Cheers

Dave
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Classic Curve



Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not good, and I have contacted trading standards, they are on the case.
I have tried to keep it non-specific, Rick....

On the good side, I do have the car, and plumped for a Spyder conversion.
OK so not purist, but perhaps the best of both worlds..
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

you do have some legal protection; by engaging the garage's services (and assuming this wasn't an "off the books" job), you have made a leagaly binding contract with the garage, the laws you can look to for protection are the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002, and at Common Law. These laws give you statutory rights and you are entitled to expect that the work is carried out:

With reasonable care and skill; this means that the garage should do the work competently and to a standard expected of a garage of that type.

Within a reasonable time (unless a specific time was agreed)

At a reasonable charge (unless a fixed price was agreed).

Try trading standards, or take some proper legal advice but do it quickly.

Dave
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Scotty



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi CC,

This is me only dotting the "t's" and crossing the "i's" as I'm sure you & trading standards will probably have had this conversation -

A. Did the garage give you a detailed break-down of the work to be carried out, how many hours they estimated it would take (allowing + or - hours for unforseen circumstances) and estimated material costs?

B. Did the garage supply you with a detailed bill, laying out what and how long each part of the process took + material costs when you paid the bill?

C. Did you contact any other previous customers to ascertain how they found their work - or, have you since tried to find other dissatisfied customers?

D. On top of contacting TS, I would recommend you contact the local motor trade body for your neck of the world i.e. up here in Scotland we have the Scottish Motor Traders Association based in Edinburgh?

E. I've seen this done, but I don't know how effective it is - as a last resort you take your car and park it outside the garage with notices inside the windows detailing your displeasure, bad work, etc, etc. I saw this done outside the Reliant dealership in Glasgow on a Scimitar - it seemed to get a result. (Be warey though, some garage owners are not your friendly types if you get my drift.)

Good luck.
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Classic Curve



Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: The saga continues... Reply with quote

Hi Scotty and Dave,

Thanks for all your comments and support, but I'm affraid the horse has already bolted.
Yes I did contact trading standards, and got an engineers report to take to the court to defend my case, as they took me to court, I was disputing the final bill of £4800, having already paid £5k up front.

At the court the Judge totally disregarded the engineers report, which states:-
"estimate total time for priming, painting, flatting and polishing this model would be in the region of 28 hours"
The bill came to 137 for the body work!!
"Now I turn to the quality of the re-spray which in my considered opinion is very poor" Then goes into specifics "There are pieces of foreign material on every panel, water..... cracking paint.... peeling...shrinkage... silicones.. and the general finish of the vehicle I can only describe as being very poor."

What can you Do???
So I appealed, but it was found that without new evidence there wasn't sufficient grounds, so a paid the......

To cap it all they still have a good Lotus twin cam and gearbox, or have already sold it, as they decided to charge me £3400 for storage..

I am now in the process of going through the court to get recompense..

Yes I should have taken proper legal advice, but thought that it was so cut and dried it was a given.. Wrong again!!

I'll be seeking legal advice this time though.

They did give me a job list and breakdown of the bill, 137 hours for the paint!!!

I'd love to find any other customers of this Classic Car garage in Devon, and see if they have had a similar experience.

I went there today, and I don't think that parking outside would be a good idea!!

I did quote the Supply of Goods and Services act, but to no avail.

This is a cautionary tale....
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Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22429
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very sobering tale, thanks for sharing with us. Entrusting any company with the restoration of your pride n joy is stressful enough, without all the headaches you've encountered.

Hope you get the engine out successfully.

RJ
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear this..

Given the sums involved and the risk of blowing good money after bad, I think you do need to take professional advice before doing anythinge else.

Dave
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Ashley



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1426
Location: Near Stroud, Glos

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The truth is that it is very difficult to find specialists who really do a good job, the rest will be convinced they do and be wrong. Therefore you need all the knowledge and experience you can muster to recognise suitable subcontractors and get work done to a standard acceptable.

However, as someone married to a lawyer, the one thing I can assure you is that court action is often a total disaster with disputes like this. You're far better off negotiating your own way out of the mess and minimising financial loss. As soon as lawyers are involved, everyone digs their heals in, the dispute drags on for ever and unless the evidence in your favour is clearcut, you'll end up with the compromise you should have made in the first place.

I'm very sorry indeed for all your problems.

Ash
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