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Boiling battery
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Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Boiling battery Reply with quote

Some time back I wrote that my Morris 1800 had blown up its battery, I fitted a new battery and regulator, when I checked it with a multi meter it seemed to be charging correctly.

Yesterday I looked under the bonnet and found that there was battery acid leaking from the filler caps.

A further check with the meter showed the voltage was climbing up above 15 volts.

It must be the dynamo? I have never seen this happen before, any comments?

Regards Kels.
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victor 101



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 446
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a faulty regulator.
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47Jag



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: Bothwell, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kels,

Did you check the new regulator when you fitted it. The regulator (RB340)is set to 16volts OPEN CIRCUIT. In other words without the battery load. Remove the regulator cover, place a bit of paper or thin cardboard between the cut-out points (the left side coil) and measure the voltage between the 'D' terminal and earth. Rev the engine to about 2000RPM & adjust the regulator (the right side coil) accordingly but turning cam that the spring rests on. There is a special tool for this job but it can be done with careful use of long nose pliars. When you are happy with the setting pull the paper insulator out and the voltage should drop to about 14.2-14.5volts.

Art
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Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't blame the dynamo. It is only doing what it should if not regulated properly. The output voltage of a dynamo spirals up rapidly if unregulated and is an initial basic test to check it is working. In fact if spun too fast without regulation the dynamo can destroy itself (and your battery).

A good regulator earth is an essential part of its proper operation. Check that first before trying to adjust the regulator.
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Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
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47Jag



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: Bothwell, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,

Good point.

Art
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Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: overcharging Reply with quote

Thanks guys, I did not check the regulator as described when I installed it. I did run it and check the output with a voltmeter. it read correctly

When I retested it the voltage seemed to be drifting higher. I was wondering if it was correctly earthed?

I will read over the instructions you have given and retest. Sorry for the delay in replying I have been away from home.

Regards Kels.
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Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: boiling battery Reply with quote

Well I cured the overcharging by cleaning the connectors on the regulator, there must have been residual acid within the connectors.

Sadly while out on test the engine failed. Traced to a faulty rotor arm, I managed to get a tow home and now await the delivery of parts.The 1800 has a good spares man.

This is the second rotor arm failure this year, my 1932 BSA three wheeler suffered a similiar failure.

Regards Kels.
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Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:29 pm    Post subject: boiling battery Reply with quote

Well, it just gets worse,thought I had resolved the problem with a new RB340 regulator. Went for a run to town about 12 miles and smelt a familiar smell. Acid all over the battery top.

I bought another regulator on Ebay. when I fitted it the charge light stayed on. I switched the ignition off the light stayed on.

Panic ensued,eventually to the accompaniament of smoke rising from the dynamo I managed to get the battery leads off.

Too late I now need a dynamo.

I have checked the earth to the control box, it is ok. I have checked the wiring it is correct. I am about to order a new dynamo and another regulator. Any insights?

Regards Kels.
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Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be the cut-out points sticking closed! If it should happen again don't mess about with the battery, pull off the D terminal wire on the control box (or cut it if necessary) to save your dynamo. Sorry it is "after the horse has bolted"!
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Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
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Roger-hatchy



Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 2135
Location: Tiptree, Essex

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought

Have you polarized the dynamo.

I have been having problems with my system as well.

Luckily dynamo is still OK, four U/S regulators, one bunt out, two no magnetic pull on any of the bibboins, third I thought was OK but ignition light comes on above 2000 rpm and ammeter on full swing.
But not boiling the battery even after 30+ miles, mind my battery sits out in the airstream in the back from under the car.

Have jump / temp wired just the ignition and charging side, was also told to make sure the dynamo was polarized as well, but still the same.

Like you waiting for a new regulator.

In the post today.

Roger

PS I have also been told not to expect the regulator to be "out of the box and plug and play"
Clean the points first, use the finest wet and dry, 2000 at least.
And very gently.
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Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:35 pm    Post subject: boiling battery Reply with quote

Yes I have polarised the dynamo, the problem is it appears over enthusiastic in doing its duty.

I am awaiting delivery of a new dynamo and yet another rb340 regulator. The points are blued on the old one.

regards Kels.
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Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: boiling battery Reply with quote

well the new dynamo and regulator arrived, The dynamo had the wrong front plate, did not allow the adjusting strap to reach it.
I thought about replacing it with the one from the old dynamo. In the end I just made up an extended arm to reach the bolt hole.

Polarised before fitting.

Then an examination of the new regulator showed evidence of damage, while being delivered. the dynamo had obviously hit the tags bending them. I straightened them and fitted it.

When I started the engine dynamo ignition light went out. A check with a meter showed it was only just charging, about 12.70 volts shown.

I am waist deep in discarded components, and futile hopes.

I rechecked every thing. All tests O.K. So it must be the regulator??

I ordered another regulator from Ebay. I am hesitating to adjust the regulator I have because of the damage to its base. and I am beggining to believe that my original problem was due to the dynamo having an unusual fault, causing it to overcharge.

I am becoming an expert on charging circuits even if an unwilling one.

regards Kels.
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 822
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kelsham

There are several threads on dynamos & regulators running.

Here's one that I responded to:

http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8096&start=15

I'll see if I can get the manual I referred to & scan the relevant pages.

Mike
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Roger-hatchy



Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 2135
Location: Tiptree, Essex

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike you just beat me to it.
Was about to post the same link but first page

There is a PDF link from JonV2 on the first page, post 9 of the same link
This is the Lucas correspondence course.
Very usefull.

Like Kels I now have more bin bits, four U/S control boxes and a spare dynamo.

The control box I finally bought was from Small ford spares, it looks a lot more like Lucas of old than the tinware ones of ebay

As to the dynamo going OTT I had a reading on mine off 105 volt at one time, might be my meter??, But I think that is the reason for the control box, to regulate and control the voltage to the battery and system.

Roger
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Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A dynamo will only put out 2 to 4 volts depending on revs. and also the residual magnetism in the field cores, with the field terminal disconnected. The residual magnetism (of which you are changing the polarity when you polarise the dynamo) CANNOT produce more. Dynamo voltage can only "rocket" if too much external voltage from the regulator is fed to the field coils. Or if the large and small dynamo terminals are shorted together. Ergo your problem CANNOT be the dynamo unless there is a possibility that the two terminals or the wires from the regulator are shorted together. To check for internal shorts remove both wires, connect a voltmeter from the D (large) terminal to earth. start the engine and check that the output is between 2 and 4 volts even when you rev. the engine.

Your problem is almost certainly crossed or wrong connections, and if not you are back to the regulator.

Perhaps it is worth asking if you are polarising the dynamo correctly? With the dynamo in situ and both terminals disconnected a wire should be connected to the LIVE side of the battery (depending on positive or negative earth) to the Dynamo Field terminal (the small one) for about five seconds. That reverses the polarity if necessary and will also restore the residual magnetism on a dynamo which has lost it, which is very necessary to enable the (self-exciting) dynamo to commence the charging with the correct polarity.

I did once come across a car with wrong dynamo polarity. The regulator points arced like fury and the cutout points welded themselves together. Presumably the voltage of current passing in the discharge direction through the battery was astronomical and I would think the battery would have "boiled".

Jim.
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Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
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