Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Peter_L]

Mike C's contribution to today's " seen anything interesting"
http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1189&start=4395
prompted me to write this, a subject that I have discussed over the odd drink.

"Have Racing and Rally cars become too fast ?"

I know that once upon a time the man with the Red Flag was deemed to be required because the first motor cars were too fast and locomotive travel at 50 mph may cause ladies to part company with some of their internal bits.

Back in the late 60's and early 70's I have been know to throw my 1300cc modified Mini through the forests at "ridiculous" speeds, sometimes reaching nearly 76.5 mph....

I was also a spectator to many Lombard RAC, Welsh and Scottish Rallies.
Plus F1 and Touring cars. James Hunt, Juha Kankkunen. Jimmy Mc Rae and of course our one and only Nigel were the masters of their sports.

I did hear a saying, don't know who and haven't yet found it on Google, that the faster the car, the shorter the straight.

Which is what I was referring to earlier. "Have Racing and Rally cars become too fast ?"

Already there are reports emerging from F1 testing that overtaking may be much more difficult with the new 2017 cars. They are wider, faster and create a "black hole" of damaged air behind them. Watch Nascar on their version of the "Magic Roundabout" and see that even being too close, side by side can remove virtually any skill related action by the driver.
You-tube has hours of video showing Rally Cars moving through a significant part of the stage in an inverted acrobatic display until either a tree of terra firma intervenes.

The late Colin McRae, is said to have penned the saying, "if in doubt-flat out" but the modern Rally cars have such a high top speed that at night they are almost at the corner before their lights have had time to illuminate it.

Monaco, for example, has never been the fastest F1 circuit and for many years it has shown that one does not watch it to see exciting overtaking. Now with the cars even wider and their speeds increasing will it become a race that is decided on Qualifying and a throw of the "mechanical / software issue" dice.

Returning to Mike's post. Is the sport about the spectacle or is it about the technology, perhaps once upon a time it was both, or is it that the venues have not kept up with the technology ?

[mikeC]

For me the sport is about the spectacle, and I got more enjoyment watching those trials cars performing at 10mph than I do from F1 at 200mph. Speed alone isn't the spectacle - there has to be some drama too. If F1 cars went round corners sideways I would find it a lot more interesting!

Sadly F1 (and WRC too) is no longer a sport - it's serious big business with very large sums of money involved.

As for the venues, circuits like Monaco are inadequate for the present day cars and their performance, whilst those like Silverstone have removed the spectator to the point where they are better off staying at home and watching on television (although that too is far from perfect - the extensive use of telephoto shots reduces he effects of speed to the point where the spectacle is lost ...)

signed ... Grumpy Old Man!
_________________
in the garage: 1938 Talbot Ten Airline
Recently departed: 1953 Lancia Appia, 1931 Austin Seven, 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on!

[alastairq]

Trialling [from MikeC's contribution] used to be a very popular spectator sport...especially back in the days when anything motoring was economically limited.

Whilst it has its stalwarts, it is less popular from a spectator viewpoint these days.

Perhaps because the entries rarely represent the vehicles of today? [Because they are less-than-competent?}

I don't follow racing or rallying much any more...mostly because of the commercialism, and the fact that often its a case of simply throwing money a the problem.
A bit like football?

I definitely think it's all about spectacle.

Whilst I respect the drivers' skills to an extent, I often think a simple change in the rules would really sort out the drivers involved....for example, for Formula 1, have half the field travelling clockwise, the other half travelling anti-clockwise. That would encourage the advent of so-called 'real-world' driver skills.

The technical appreciation of motor sport has, for me, been lost, once the vehicles concerned departed dramatically from what one could see in the High Street showrooms...
I am hard put, to differentiate between a Jaguar on hte track, and a Porsche.....or even, a Kia!
Labels do nothing for me.

[mikeC]

[Minxy]

I worked in higher end motorsport in the late seventies, eighties and early nineties. Most of this was with the Audi rally team although I did do some contract work with the Jordan F1 team and circuit racing with Audi. I like to think these were some of the best years certainly for rallying and would agree that these days it is simply to clinical with no character whatever. I cant remember if I have ever put this link up before but this is me in Oman in Jordan in the late eighties changing a gearbox at the side of the road. The car developed a fault while being driven between stages and it had to be ready to go at the next stage so there was no option but to find a space on the high street and do it there. I cannot quite imagine this would happen today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfjaIsT3gn0

There are other videos of the car on desert stages if you look on u tube.
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Hillman minx convertible. Lanchester LD 10

[Peter_L]

Great Video. I remember watching similar things in the 80's. For a few years I followed the RAC through most of its route, leap frogging stages, grabbing some sleep in the car or in the forest. Happy days.

I spotted Petra, awesome place.

[Dipster]

Big time motor "sport" exists no more. It is simply motor business with handsome financial rewards for the successful. Thus it can get aggressive at time. I cite the BTCC and some of the antics of drivers in F1 as an example. That is not sport.

I love the cars but rarely bother to actually watch the racing, even when I am at the circuit. Why? As I said the racing is getting a bit silly due to the money pressures but the circuits are no fun either.

My youth saw me at circuits like Cadwell Park and Crystal Palace that were real challenges to keep the car on the circuit. Now if you do not truly have the skill to keep it all together you will probably simply whoosh off onto acres of land. So drivers do not need to know their limits, they can push until that happens then get back on the track. Rather like happened with Scalextric.

[peter scott]

[Minxy]

[Peter_L]

[MikeEdwards]

[peter scott]

Slightly aside from the thread title I watched a very interesting documentary last night on PBS America. It was an analysis of the 1955 Le Mans crash with evidence from Paul Skilleter's researches.

This video shows the same footage from the PBS program. Clearly there were a number of unfortunate factors contributing to the accident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTrZaHSl1I

1. The pit lane was just part of the three car width track.
2. The approach to the pits was just after a right hand curve.
3. Pierre Levegh driving the unfortunate Mercedes may have been a little slow to react to events.
4. Lance Macklin was unable to brake sufficiently when Mike Hawthorn pulled over in front of him for a pit stop and Macklin swerved into the path of the Mercedes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_Le_Mans_disaster

Peter
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon