Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

Sid · Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:21 pm Post subject: A starter motor that doesn't

My Ford V8 Pilot (converted to 12 volt, not by me) that I recently bought has, up till recently, been starting fine. Then when I was doing a compression test, the starter motor packed up halfway through.
My first thought was that the motor had burnt out (it looks like the original 6 volt although I can't confirm that). So I disconnected everything and attempted to take it off. This wasn't possible as the steering drop arm is in the way, even when unbolted from the frame and pushed up as far as it goes (about 1" before it hits the exhaust manifold).
So I bolted it back onto the bell housing. Since then every time I connect the battery it goes straight to earth. If I disconnect the lead from the solenoid to the starter, everything is fine.
I tested the solenoid between the two main terminals and got a closed circuit. I had a spare unused 12 volt solenoid switch, which I also tested, so I swapped it over with the original just to make sure that was ok, and it still goes straight to earth. It does this even when the ignition is off, even though the ignition has to be on to operate the solenoid.
The motor is free to turn, and the brushes look ok.
I'm out of ideas, anyone got any?
Thanks in advance.

ukdave2002 · Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4104 Location: South Cheshire

Is there continuity in the armature and field wingdings?

Dave

Sid · Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 8:02 pm Post subject:

Because I can't get the motor right off I don't think I can get to the armature, but I'll give it a go tomorrow and at least check the commutator bars..........
.......checking adjacent commutator bars shows 0.4 ohms on all but one, or it might have been two bars, which shows 1
So motor has to come off which is a bit of a problem

petelang · Joined: 21 May 2009 Posts: 442 Location: Nottingham

Possibly an insulating spacer either broken up or melted where connection goes into the body of the motor, disturbed by attempt to remove and now shorted straight to earth.
Reckon it will have to come off for a proper look though.
Peter

Sid · Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:26 am Post subject:

And therein lies the problem. I've tried each and every way to get the thing off. I've even tried to dismantle it on the car. If it was an inch shorter it would come past the steering box. Terrible design.

Ray White · Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6304 Location: Derby

V8 Nutter · Joined: 27 Aug 2012 Posts: 587

The starter will not come off without disturbing steering components. That is because much of the Pilots design can be traced back to pre-war American Ford V8's which were left hand drive. I seem to remember having to move the steering box, but that could have been on a R.H.D. pre war model

Penman · Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4755 Location: Swindon, Wilts.

Hi
I seem to remember a problem with starter removal from a Vauxhall Shoveit (Chevette) the exhaust downpipe, or maybe the manifold, needing to be removed in order to remove the starter.
_________________
Bristols should always come in pairs.

Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10

Sid · Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 12:09 pm Post subject:

I've tried taking the steering box bolts off which can be pushed up about half an inch, so if I can take off the bendix etc from the back of the motor while it is still in situ, it may just be able to be wriggled out. I'm trying to avoid taking off the exhaust, but that may have to go too. I'll let you know when I start to enjoy myself :\

V8 Nutter · Joined: 27 Aug 2012 Posts: 587

Look on the bright side. You can always start it on the handle.

Sid · Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 7:54 pm Post subject:

Luckily she usually starts with three pumps on the loud pedal and one swing of the handle.
The funny thing is, I asked the bloke who sold it to me if it started on the handle. When he said he wouldn't want to try I told him I used to start Bedford RL 4-tonners on the handle when I was in the army. He said when he was in the army they had starter motors Laughing