Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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Havanit
Joined: 06 May 2020 Posts: 1
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:24 am Post subject: Estimating a Singer Gazelle IIIC from 1962 |
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Hello,
I would like to know how much a Singer Gazelle IIIC from 1962 in its current state is worth. Maybe you could give me an estimation, some advices or point me to others forums ?
It's a french version. It has been stocked in a (more of less dry) barn for 45 years. The wheels, brakes and the motor are seized up (but it can turn). The tyres are most probably to be changed. The frame has some rust on the surface, but nothing too bad it seems.
Here are some pictures : https://imgur.com/a/U2c2Trn? , and a better picture from the inside https://i.imgur.com/FSjmxYH.jpg
What is your opinion about it ?
Thank you, have a nice day |
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badhuis
Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1390 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Very difficult to see if there is any rust on the body. There seems a rust spot on the end of the left hand side sill / start of the wheel arch. These are difficult points to repair. It does help if the (other) wheel arches are rustfree.
The hood has rips so would need renewing, which is a costly affair (someone local to me had a new top made for his Singer convertible which cost him €4000).
Bumper at the rear bent?
Are all papers with the car (Carte Grise)?
Without a good inspection as a rough estimate, I would think the car be worth around €2000. At least that is what I would give for it _________________ a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment |
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Penman
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4756 Location: Swindon, Wilts.
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
badhuis wrote: |
Without a good inspection as a rough estimate, I would think the car be worth around €2000. At least that is what I would give for it |
I think that is the most telling part of your post.
What something is worth is not necessarily it's value.
I know what is quoted daily as the price/value of the Euro, but I consider it as only worth £0.50.
Given a willing seller and a willing buyer, the value of ANYTHING is What the Buyer is prepared to pay.
If someone else is prepared to pay 10 times what you offer then that has become the value. _________________ Bristols should always come in pairs.
Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10 |
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COMMAD
Joined: 12 Dec 2011 Posts: 176 Location: Gold Coast. Australia
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Nice car, has lots of potential, go for it. Value is what you can afford. It's up to you. |
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Rootes75
Joined: 30 Apr 2013 Posts: 3814 Location: The Somerset Levels
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Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: |
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The seller will ask a price, you have a good look around it and if you think its worth it then go for it.
If you do think the price is fair in your mind I would still haggle the price, that's just part of buying a car. _________________ Various Rootes Vehicles. |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22446 Location: UK
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badhuis
Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1390 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Agree with Rick.
Market for these in Europe is really, really small. I know of two similar cars. One from a dealer in much better condition, been trying to sell it for a couple of years. It was not overly expensive (around €6000) but as far as I know he still has it.
Another I know its owner is will be trying to sell because too much cars. It is in a similar condition - standing for years, a bit of rot here and there, but it has that new top I mentioned. For that I suppose he will not accept offers under at least €5k. I would guess he has a problem selling it for that kind of money.
LHD will be a bonus for European buyers but I do not think there are much takers here.
I would love to have it 15 years ago instead of my 4 door Minx. Beautiful car, especially in that Singer guise. Now, not so much anymore - too much cars you know _________________ a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment |
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lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans
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Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Being an expat in France the price asked for classic by the French is usually quite a bit higher than in the UK. As an example I am looking for a nice Tiger 100 from the 60s. Here in France I am being asked about £10,000. I have found a fully restored one in perfect condition in the UK for £6,000. I did a quick search on several sites for the Rootes group marques and didn't find one equivalent vehicle for sale, so no Hillmans, Sunbeams or whatever, apart from a Singer 9. That brings up the question of spares availability, and only a club member could probably answer that. In France, I would not give much hope of finding much at all, if anything. In all the meetings I have been to over 20 years, I have seen but one, a Sunbeam, a 1950s Talbot, but of the 50s/60s Vogue style, nary a one. Given that the engine is seized, the wheels too, I don't hold out much hope of a sale at all, although someone in the UK might want to save it or have it as a parts car. But that would involve the cost of collecting the car, so again, not a lot would be my answer.Even in the UK there is a running car, 75,000 and three owners, for sale at £2,750, and a rebuilt concours Gazelle convertible at £10,000. Getting £1,000 for it as is would be about my mark. Oh, and I do love the comment "tyres may need changing" |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6310 Location: Derby
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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I would not even entertain this car if it needs to be shipped to the U.K.
If, however, I were looking to use it in France then I would go for it. The problem with all Rootes cars though is rust...and it's the rust you can't see that is the biggest problem. If the sills look a bit rusty from the outside just what lies behind could be many times worse.
Having said that, this one looks promising.
Offer £1500 and see what the response is. |
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badhuis
Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1390 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:37 am Post subject: |
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A similar (but different of course) Sunbeam Rapier convertible is being auctioned in Belgium the next week. LHD, Swiss car. Nice condition, not showroom condition. Start price €5250. I think this car has been at least two times before on the auction and presumably did not reach the reserve price.
https://www.auctim.com/ords/auctim/auctions/nl/lot/3056640/1958_sunbeam_rapier_serie_2_convert
_________________ a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Looks good on the outside but they seem to be shy about showing the engine. I see a diaphragm jet carb. in the boot so I suspect it might have a 1725 cc unit up front. Doesn't look as if it has overdrive.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6310 Location: Derby
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought the Sunbeam Rapier had the edge over the Singer. If it does have the 1725 engine I imagine it would go quite well.... until, that is, the front main gave trouble |
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alanb
Joined: 10 Sep 2012 Posts: 516 Location: Berkshire.
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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I think the Singer actually looks better than the Sunbeam, I never did like those fins on the rapiers much prefer the more rounded ones on the Hillman and Singer, or none as per the earlier ones. _________________ old tourer
Morris 8 two seater |
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Rootes75
Joined: 30 Apr 2013 Posts: 3814 Location: The Somerset Levels
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Out of the 3 styles I would put the Singer at the top, I do like the way it looks.
My Father had a Rapier in his youth and he still hankers for a nice one! _________________ Various Rootes Vehicles. |
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