Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

Rick · Site Admin Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22446 Location: UK

There's been a lot of talk about the new Ineos Grenadier online over the last couple of days or so, especially given its very old-school, Defender-esque, styling (albeit a bit fussy for my liking).

If it's screwed together properly, this could prove to be quite a success - but is there still a market for a low-frills 4x4?

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8476199/Jim-Ratcliffes-Ineos-Grenadier-4X4-revealed.html

RJ
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MikeEdwards · Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 2470 Location: South Cheshire

I saw that in the paper, and my only thought was how similar it is, and whether JLR have (or are entitled to) an opinion on whether it's a bit too similar. That said, there's a Spanish vehicle that is also very similar in appearance.

norustplease · Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Posts: 779 Location: Lancashire

Many of our local farmers have migrated to Japanese 4x4 pickups, probably more useful with an open rear bed than a fully enclosed estate type body. Not many 'working' Defenders around here now.
I can see this catching on, however.
The Spanish Land Rovers were called Santana's. I think that the company has closed down now.
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1953 Citroen Traction
1964 Volvo PV544
1957 Austin A55 Mk 1
Boring Tucson SUV

alastairq · Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1952 Location: East Yorkshire

The pickup trucks available now are very competent...and relatively cheap to lease..
Round here, one or two farmers still run around in SWB L/R trucks...it's about what's new and less likely to conk out today? [Plus, who can turn up the best deal?]

SOme of the more 'subsistence' farmers [the one with genuine cow-muck yards, for example?]....round here are still loyal to Daihatsu 4traks...which are rated to tow more than any other comparable vehicle...

Do farmers still wear wellies these days?
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

consul 57 · Joined: 09 Nov 2017 Posts: 487 Location: somerset

i think the jap pick up's have made a large dent in traditional farmers choice of vehicle, you dont see that many farmers in l/rovers round here in this part of somerset, the electric board have gone 4x4 pick up now as well as other utilities, unless you go extreme these pick up's with a locking diff and decent tyres will go where you want them to go and dare i say reliability is not an issue either.
speaking as a long standing hilux owner who has spent sod all on repairs over 20+ years service them normaly and they will go on and on.

alastairq · Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1952 Location: East Yorkshire

Not all the taliban can be wrong, then?

When-I-worked...[for the military] there was kerfuffle trying to decide with what 4x4 crew cabbed pickup the military should lease, to do the jobs previously done by Land Rover TULs/TUMs?

Ford Rangers were tried, as were Toyota Hiluxes...[on which I think there was a consensus?]
Interestingly...since these up-picks were to be used off road as well as on caramac.. an edict was issued barring the Izuzu pickup from our off road training circuit.
They didn't like 1 in 3 knife edges, and would broach-to on top. Not good breakover angles on those.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

Kenham · Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 209 Location: Kent

There is certainly a market for a basic no frills 4x4, if I wanted to replace my 1997 Defender I cannot think of a vehicle that would do the same job. Mine has nearly 200 thousand miles on the clock now and is returning the same 31mpg that it did when I bought it with 64 thousand on the clock. I work in forestry and there are not a lot of modern vehicles that will put up with the conditions we have to work in. Looking at the video it looks like it has independent front suspension which would put me off, ie one wheel goes up but the rest of the chassis ,sump etc does not. I have not seen any info on it but I certainly think it is a good idea , I don't need electronics and gizmo's just a basic workhorse. Owned my Defender for nearly 19 years now , could not of had a better vehicle
,one clutch, just fitted a new brake master cylinder, same brake pistons/ calipers, same gearbox/ transfer box, same axles. It was fitted with a Zeus conversion so it has no timing belt at about 70 thousand miles.

lowdrag · Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans

A bit off topic, but from reading many forums there seems to be a distinct yearning for a no-frills car these days. All these electronics going awol, and the latest I see from BMW is that you will "lease" your extras, paying monthly for the pleasure of aircon for example. Lease it in summer and drop it in winter? Easy to do with electronics, just like Photoshop. You used to be able to buy the CD for your computer, (mine is 10 years old) now you pay monthly.Like the LR, I long for the simplicity of my first Golf, with rubber mats and no carpets, (does anyone drive a car without rubber overmats to protect the carpets?) yet a simple reliability and no niggles. Less is more.

peter scott · Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh

Save the carpets for the end of life owner.

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

ukdave2002 · Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4104 Location: South Cheshire

I think the market for a real no frills modern car is minimal and probably therefore not commercially viable...
Outside our this community the vast majority of new car owners won't want to ever look under the bonnet and certainly not undertake the additional maintenance that removing engine electronics would introduce.

If you want a no frills car stay with your classic Smile

Dave

Ray White · Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6312 Location: Derby

I thought the Defender was going to be made abroad under licence?

I must have got it wrong.

As for this new 4x4.... if it proves to be as rugged as the Defender I would like one.

I particularly like the approach towards owners who wish to customise or retro fit as desired. A big attraction I would have thought. Personally, I would change the lights for starters.

alastairq · Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1952 Location: East Yorkshire

Outside of the peculiar UK new-car market.....no frills, cheap-as-chips new cars are very popular...Dacia Sandero is one example?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

Bitumen Boy · Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:18 am Post subject:

Latest on this: JLR have lost their court case attempting to trademark the Defender's shape - https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/jaguar-land-rover-loses-legal-155436253.html

lowdrag · Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans

Which, if it can be used as a precedent, will help many replica people such as myself. The crux of the court decision is that one cannot copyright a shape, so those companies currently being attacked by Jaguar for making replicas will be able to sleep again at night. It is two years since Jaguar started sending out - or rather their lawyers did - "cease and desist" letters with threats of court action. I am led to believe that Jaguar had never even taken out a copyright on, for example, the C or D-type. Might just be anecdotal, but Jaguar were, in the day, most helpful and encouraging when I built the Le Mans C-type, but since the whiz-kid youngsters have moved in they have got very sniffy.