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Cylinder head gasket re annealing?
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Glenn Crawford"
The feller says it makes a huge difference, adding 50% to the clamping force, which I am happy to believe, but what do other forum users think about this practice? I thought that cylinder head nuts are fitted and torqued-down dry.[/quote]


I wasn't sure either, so when I fitted the head on my A40 Devon A coup!e of Weeks ago I rang up Gosnays Engineering (Who have done work for me in the past) "Ooh, we used to do loads of them back in the 50/60's"
And he told me apply, " a bit of engine oil on the threads"
Which is what I did.
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 747
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was always taught, mostly by my grandfather, fount of all wisdom & knowledge, that no fasteners should be assembled 'dry'.
So a light cleaning of nuts & bolts, followed by a drop of 3-in-1 was his, & now mine, rule.
I'm not sure if torque wrenches or Loctite existed then, so 'tight' & 'very tight' were the guidelines.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3610
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MVPeters wrote:
I was always taught, mostly by my grandfather, fount of all wisdom & knowledge, that no fasteners should be assembled 'dry'.
So a light cleaning of nuts & bolts, followed by a drop of 3-in-1 was his, & now mine, rule.
I'm not sure if torque wrenches or Loctite existed then, so 'tight' & 'very tight' were the guidelines.

Torque wrench settings are quoted normally dry.
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petelang



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 295
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert but good engineers have told me, under no circumstances to oil the thread section on head studs. However it may be he means to lubricate the non threaded part to allow the head to slide down onto the block properly.
But do also check the stud has thread below the top face or the nut, whilst achieving the torque, may not actually be clamping the head. In such case you may need a washer under the nut.
Peter
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4002
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say if you prefer to lightly lubricate threads then fine...but please don't then rely on "dry" torque wrench figures - they differ considerably.!!
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Glenn Crawford



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 73
Location: Dorset, SW England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All points noted. I carried out a test to see whether enough torque was being applied by the head nuts (with oil) to squish the copper gasket even a little tiny bit - to give me confidence that it would seal - but it measured precisely the same after the test as before.
That being the case I have admitted defeat (which I hate to say!) and gone back to using a traditional gasket. I can't for the life of me understand how solid copper gaskets can ever work if they don't compress, but clearly they do, and they have a loyal following especially in the motorcycling world.
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn Crawford wrote:
I can't for the life of me understand how solid copper gaskets can ever work if they don't compress, but clearly they do, and they have a loyal following especially in the motorcycling world.


An advantage of solid copper head gaskets, especially in air cooled motorbike engines is that they allow heat from the head to transfer to the cylinder barrel which aids cooling by increasing the cooling area. Whereas a copper asbestos sandwich gasket tends to insulate the head from the cylinder and gives the exhaust valve a hard life.
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