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Car search question
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3993
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:28 pm    Post subject: Car search question Reply with quote

Just some advice sought about seeking info.

If I put a registration number into the DVLA search box and it returns "vehicle details could not be found".... COULD that mean they have no details about the vehicle either being exported or scrapped?

Clutching at straws perhaps?
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Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21546
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're getting "vehicle details could not be found" then I suppose it could mean any of the following:

- the vehicle existed pre-DVLA and exists still, but was never put onto DVLA records when it was established - ie it's sat in a shed somewhere
- the vehicle existed pre-DVLA, but was never put onto their records when it was established, and has since been scrapped
- the vehicle was registered with DVLA, but has since been scrapped
- it has been exported and the reg. cancelled (if it had been exported and DVLA not notified, then it'd still show as a current registration)

Does anyone know when a car is exported, does the UK reg. go into a kind of "holding" state just in case it returns here? Or does the reg. just cease to exist entirely?

RJ
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Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3993
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Rick. You featured the car in question some time back. It is my late father's MG M type UW5990.

I have gone through all the usual channels and established some facts. The VSCC, the MMM Register and the MG car club have all been helpful. The 'MG Experience' forum has also been helpful - in fact one subscriber even went to the trouble of finding the property in Great Doddington where the last known owner - a John Butt - lived. Unfortunately he had moved long ago.

Considering the obviously restored car was photographed in Abingdon (on the road) at the MG Golden Anniversary in 1980 , there is a good chance that it survives but as yet it has remained illusive.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1457
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does anyone know when a car is exported, does the UK reg. go into a kind of "holding" state just in case it returns here? Or does the reg. just cease to exist entirely?


My Dellow was exported in the 1990's to the USA.
It was repatriated by me some 7- 8 years ago. [IE, purchased off it's US owner]

During that time, the car never received any sort of US registration. [It was raced under SCCA rules, only]
Also, the UK registration was still on record with the DVLA......

Now, whether the last UK owner neglected to tell the DVLA the car had been sold/exported....or whether the new US owner simply purchased the car, and shipped it off without mention to the UK authorities, I do not know. At the time, contact with DVLA would have been by phone/snailmail only.
At the time, it was not the vendor's responsibility to inform DVLA of a change of Registered Keeper. [But, a wise thing to do in any event?] It was for the new owner to inform DVLA. I'm not sure how soon after purchase, the car was shipped? Or whether it spent some time here in the UK being fettled?

When undergoing Customs , etc checks [It acquired Historic vehicle status, hence only 5% VAT]...The DVLA were very quick to issue a new V5 with the car's original registration.

So I presume the registration never left the records?

I should add, the car disappeared prior to the mandatory SORN system commencing. Any vehicle which wasn't taxed, but still extant, prior to the SORN system commencing simply remained as a SORN, with no need to renew SORN..until an owner decided to tax, or request a SORN off DVLA..then it went back into the records.

Any search on DVLA also may only apply to the registration mark.
The [MG] car could still exist, under a new registration mark?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3993
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The car COULD be registered here with a different registration number but if it is then the chassis number 2M 0715 hasn't been registered with the MMM register. The MMM last heard of this M Type in 1986.

[/i]
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1457
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but if it is then the chassis number 2M 0715 hasn't been registered with the MMM register.


It amazes me hw many folk get hold of seriously old cars, etc..yet fail to contact or join the relevant owners club?
There are many out there who own upright Ford Pops, etc....who seek advice on fixing, or rely on [expensive] spares traders for bits..when the owners club could give them everything they want, for a lot less hassle.
Folk maybe don't know to, or like to, join clubs or registers.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2002
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
Does anyone know when a car is exported, does the UK reg. go into a kind of "holding" state just in case it returns here? Or does the reg. just cease to exist entirely?

RJ


I exported a car to Australia in 2009. That registration is still on the DVLA database, and towards the bottom of the screen on the vehicle enquiry site it says "Export marker Yes".

I presume that as it's still on the database, it would get the same plate if it came back, just like when you put a cherished / private plate on a car now, if you later remove it, the car will get the old plate back. It didn't used to work like that, as I recall it, but more recently it has.

Note also that registration plates on retention don't appear on the vehicle search. So in the original question, the car may well have a different plate on it, and the original plate be on a retention certificate.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3993
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeEdwards wrote:
Rick wrote:
Does anyone know when a car is exported, does the UK reg. go into a kind of "holding" state just in case it returns here? Or does the reg. just cease to exist entirely?

RJ


I exported a car to Australia in 2009. That registration is still on the DVLA database, and towards the bottom of the screen on the vehicle enquiry site it says "Export marker Yes".

I presume that as it's still on the database, it would get the same plate if it came back, just like when you put a cherished / private plate on a car now, if you later remove it, the car will get the old plate back. It didn't used to work like that, as I recall it, but more recently it has.

Note also that registration plates on retention don't appear on the vehicle search. So in the original question, the car may well have a different plate on it, and the original plate be on a retention certificate.


I may just be a bit dense but What you have said has left me confused.

Your exported car has a note on the screen saying "Export marker yes" ...

but then you say:

"registration plates on retention don't appear on the vehicle search".

Perhaps you could help me out a little here?
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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1393
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any plate on retention will not show on a vehicle search because - it isn't on a vehicle! You will have a retention certificate which will enable you to put it back on a car at a later date.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3993
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lowdrag wrote:
Any plate on retention will not show on a vehicle search because - it isn't on a vehicle! You will have a retention certificate which will enable you to put it back on a car at a later date.


..so if the plate is retained only the person exporting the car will know about it?

Am I right in thinking if the car is brought back by someone else then the new owner here will not then get the original number even if it has been retained?
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3608
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a plate is retained prior to export, I'd assume the vehicle would still have to be allocated an age related number, and its this number that would be reallocated should the vehicle return to the UK.

A couple of years ago I repatriated the car below, the car was still on the DVLA database but with the export field checked. It was a very simple and quick process to get the car registered back in the UK with its original number plate, that were actually still there under the French plates!


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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1457
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A couple of years ago I repatriated the car below, the car was still on the DVLA database but with the export field checked. It was a very simple and quick process to get the car registered back in the UK with its original number plate, that were actually still there under the French plates!


Similar to my experience...although my memory is hazy on the subject, as it was all handled by my shipper.
What I do know is, DVLA were very happy to issue a V5 retaining the car's original reg number....which was useful, as it still had it's 1951 plates attached.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2002
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:

I may just be a bit dense but What you have said has left me confused.

Your exported car has a note on the screen saying "Export marker yes" ...

but then you say:

"registration plates on retention don't appear on the vehicle search".

Perhaps you could help me out a little here?


Sorry, they were meant to be two separate things:

1. Cars exported still show on the database marked as exported. So if your car had been exported since that came into play (and it probably didn't always work that way) then it would still show up, but with the export marker set.

2. Another entirely separate possible reason for it not showing up might be that the plate has been taken off the car and placed on a retention certificate. As someone else said, the DVLA site is a vehicle enquiry, and if the plate isn't on a vehicle, it doesn't show up.

I wasn't intending to link the two, sorry for any confusion.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3993
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Mike. It is probably my slow brain.

I am easily confused. Sad
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