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Austin Swallow not quite what it seems.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6282
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:31 am    Post subject: Austin Swallow not quite what it seems. Reply with quote

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1262964



(Sold at Beaulieu Auctions in July 2002 (Bonhams) for £3,500).


I found this fully restored Austin Swallow being advertised for, shall we say, a full price... but that is not the point. I don't even know if it is still for sale - nor do I care. What interests me is the apparent discrepancy in the date.

I was recently reminded of how I once missed out on a Mk V11M Jaguar because the owner could see that at the time I just didn't know my onions.

The car here to all intents and purposes looks like a 1931 model Austin Swallow. It features bumpers, later radiator grille, scuttle ventilators, separate front seats, etc. which are all absent or differ greatly from the earlier model. The differences as they say are blindingly obvious.!!

As a student of Swallow Coachbuilding I was therefore shocked to see a 1931 model being advertised as 1928.

As it happens, I was aware that this particular Swallow (which when previously owned by the late Mr Coundon) had been given an earlier chassis and engine dating from 1928. The body, however, dates from 1931 and that is how we in the Swallow Register have correctly recorded it.

It is of course not unusual for old cars to be re bodied; it has happened profusely throughout history. It is also quite correct to date the car from when the chassis was first registered. That is what they seem to have done but somehow failed to mention that the Swallow body is from 1931.

What is interesting to me is that with any Austin Swallow, it is the BODY that is important; the ubiquitous Austin Seven chassis is of much lesser interest and as such all Austin Swallows are and always have been dated by the body rather than the chassis.

I have not informed the people involved that the Swallow element is later than they state for reasons too numerous to mention. Rolling Eyes
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1771
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it depends on whether the PK 3397 identity is the original Swallow identity, or the 1928 chassis identity. As you say, it can be classed as a 1928 car that's been rebodied with an inappropriate later body, or a 1931 car that's been re-chassised with an earlier (and very different!) chassis. I see it's also got a post-1933 engine and 4-speed gearbox, too!

"The Jaguar Heritage Trust kindly loaned their highly original example to CMC so that they could be sure to get the details right" doesn't say much for CMC's attention to detail.

A nice special, but not in any way, shape or form an original car.
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in the garage: 1938 Talbot Ten Airline
Recently departed: 1953 Lancia Appia, 1931 Austin Seven, 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on!
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like they were seduced by the registration. PK runs from May 1928 to May 1929.

Peter
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6282
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It must be unlikely for anyone seriously contemplating the purchase of an Austin Swallow Saloon to be taken in by the 1928 date.

As The Swallow Register list NO surviving Saloons from 1928 and only 3 from 1929 anyone who thinks otherwise must be deluded or at least seriously misguided.

With the original chassis long lost a replacement has been recorded by the Austin Swallow Register as number 68,107 which according to the 'companion' places it in August 1928.

Our recorded engine number ( I would assume) is contemporary being M68,365 which would make it a "mag" engine...something else which Mike has pointed out that differs in this car.... in fact, the engine is later than anything from the Austin Swallow era!!

I am always happy to help with the details for any Swallow restoration. For example, I could have directed them to a supplier of the correct braiding (or pasting lace) which is missing in this car; 25 metres are required in a saloon! Apart from hiding joins it covers up unsightly screw heads that are clearly visible. The door cards should have two silk rope cords - this is also available if considering attention to detail.

I could have told them that their radiator mascot is far too early for the later model which they seem to have copied. The list goes on but nothing beats the 1928 date!!!

(Strangely, I have less of a problem with the hydraulic brakes as seeing the exhaust pipe emanating from the near side... but that is probably just me!))
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WP6980



Joined: 20 Sep 2016
Posts: 21
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if this car ever sold, agree that it is very obvious that it is not quite right in a number of respects, the colours are awful and original detail is sorely lacking.

All for a premium price, definitely not value for money!
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bjacko



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 351
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:20 am    Post subject: Swallow Cars Reply with quote

Practical Classics once restored a 1933 Standard Swallow and compiled a book of all the pages from the series (1982-87) in 1987. It was light blue and dark blue and the colour looked worse than the green one above!
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WP6980 wrote:
I wonder if this car ever sold, agree that it is very obvious that it is not quite right in a number of respects, the colours are awful and original detail is sorely lacking.

All for a premium price, definitely not value for money!


There's another in the Myreton Motor Museum with a similar colour scheme.



VK is MAY 1929 -> SEP 1933

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6282
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Swallow Cars Reply with quote

bjacko wrote:
Practical Classics once restored a 1933 Standard Swallow and compiled a book of all the pages from the series (1982-87) in 1987. It was light blue and dark blue and the colour looked worse than the green one above!


I have that book. They are very rare cars so complete wrecks are taken on. It was interesting to read about how making a new bonnet threw up some unexpected problems; it is not as simple as it looks. I think the choice of colour is a personal matter. What looks good to one person is disliked by another.

A chap called Garry Edwards I know is restoring a Standard Swallow. I saw the car when it was advertised as a project but felt it was too big a job for me. I was able to contribute a correct, rare, Wilmott Breeden interior light surround.



Garry has also restored an Austin Swallow saloon.
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WP6980



Joined: 20 Sep 2016
Posts: 21
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Standard Swallow that Ray refers to looked far worse (and was badly presented) than it actually was.

The paintwork is poor but original, sadly too far gone to preserve, so it will get re-painted and I have managed to match the original colours, black over primrose (on the tax file car from 1938, the colour was described as black over ivory).

The interior is very original but is missing carpets, but all the trim & leatherwork are present & correct, the trim is in a reasonable condition, leathers have responded well to feeding and are now quite supple, repairs will be required where the leather has been torn.

The headlining is totally rotten and I will leave it as it is for the time-being, Ray supplied the chrome trim to the interior light (fits against the headlining) - the original was very fragile and was broken into bits, so this was very welcome!

I am missing some other Swallow-specific parts:

interior light switch
spring mechanism for the door windows (this is a longer version to that fitted on the Austin Swallows)
rear bumperettes
hubcaps (they look like the underside of a baked bean tin can)

It would be nice to get original items to complete what is a very original car.

The car is running and it has developed a knock from the engine, I think this may be the front big end bearing, which is white-metal, having had the engine partly stripped and re-assembled, I am a bit disheartened to have to take it all to bits again... but will be doing so early in the new year.
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Gary Edwards
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6282
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good evening Garry. I had no idea it was you posting about the Austin Swallow!

Perhaps, if you could borrow a pattern from someone, you could get new hub caps made. They could possibly be 'spun' in brass and finished in chrome?

Also, as a matter of interest, did the Standard Swallow have the same braiding as the Austin?
I can recommend 'Trimming by Design' here in Derby who can produce and exact copy if required.


Ray.
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WP6980



Joined: 20 Sep 2016
Posts: 21
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good evening Ray!

Yes, the interior of the SS is moreorless the same, just bigger! Most of the braiding is there, but grubby and fragile, but I may have some left over from the Austin (the order Lorna made was generous, but the colour is blue - the SS is olive, the natural beige colours are the same).

I have a single decent hubcap - they are crude, just a steel pressing, a former will need to be fabricated so that new ones can be pressed out, when I have exhausted looking, then I will then look at the possibility of getting them re-made. I do know of two that are attached to wheels, the person will not split and is asking silly money for the wheels, which I don't need, they were painted originally.
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Gary Edwards
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6282
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354403103161?hash=item52841231b9:g:-1AAAOSwE8pjMHdo&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAwNlnfo0jSSYqq%2FBcFx8HpFQDv4ADf26NLV47x5lKNqu2BjeAmg5Ozn6VdtR20mjISlBrqN7Afi%2FbI2riEucn5qe7mqmrZCFfVbsupuTyB4X6fEP484RIj%2F4%2BepV5QjJ5IK9H85M84pwSTdy%2FA%2BLxq9c4UPllqk%2FNwXMdqy0ILoJO17VGWWMJTDpZKZXTFgrfTqZCvpB8V%2BDFknGFWd7BmFFbwJtLBzuziLt5bsIBGO6wFWJJWT0dmmMkOf3uPfdBEA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7LhsOeUYQ

Could this be what you are looking for?
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6282
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or this?...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125625309215?hash=item1d3fda181f:g:9VEAAOSwPSZjfNjf&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsCx54Ql4NN8sza1T2mkqUgQkTuuYKzJOFJhGYSGRgqXaH2zxYhiQxBFQRzEhSNDa7OUSrvp3JukR%2Bv54cYxkIGcohVA9N10%2B9MiQBIgTSZFURW7UQEQM3h75MEIcU3GCwaUsnUVUe3ptEeSOfFG2kI6xCjBZPcSVNjoTW5ld76N95%2FALcdU80hgQstf0zEsgQ6ZREXgVIppvy0e3SnhDxd4JFvJ0JarjUCeAKDwfgh79%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9L3_biVYQ
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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1585
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The DVLA show the car as 1928 but black in colour.
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WP6980



Joined: 20 Sep 2016
Posts: 21
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ray, the first switches are for BMC/Nuffield cars, and are quite small, they fit on the door pillars. The second switch is similar to the temporary one I have (without knowing the dimensions, it may be one of the small type), I will look out a photo & post on here, I keep looking!
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