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1951 Lanchester LD10
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There will be a proper update in the future. I can happily report that the work on the diagram I did last night: https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22264 paid dividends today and I have almost every wire in the engine bay connected. I also got the stator tube out so I can sort out the wiring in that and repair the horn push that I messed up.

I have the dashboard, horns, and brake switch to connect now. It was a lot of work to get as far as I did, and I hope I never have to do anything with the dynamo wiring again since access to that is appalling.

Some thinking is needed on the indicators solution too. The wiring isn't an issue except for the fact we can't physically thread both the sidelight and flasher wiring into the sidelight housing for the combination bulbs we wanted to use in there. It's entirely possible there's a simple solution to this and I'm just a bit too tired from all the work done on the rest of the job today to see it.

I need to get a few more bullet connectors, bullets, and wiring to finish off the harness completely. No new wiring is provided for the stator tube and it seems silly not to replace that if we're doing the rest. I also need a clamp or block of some sort to go on the bulkhead as per the original set up to keep the wiring harness secure since that item is missing on our car. I'm also not entirely happy with the battery lead that goes to the starter because it just sort of flops around under the car and has obviously been touching the exhaust in the past so that will need replacing and properly securing somehow.

Big hurdle cleared on this job today at least, so I'm happy about that. Apologies for the lack of photos, you'll get those when I've edited the video in the future.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another no-picture update here for you today since I made some serious progress today on this job.

Engine bay

1 black earth wire to bolt down to the correct place, either inner wing or carburettor bolt seems likely
2 purple/black wires to identify. One is for horn, the other is for wipers, and the battery died in my multimeter and I didn't have anything else usable for a continuity test. As soon as I know which is for the wiper/horn, I can connect these up
1 grey wire for power outlet. This is non-original, just need to figure out which socket on the voltage regulator block is going to be most sensible
Horn wiring needs connecting too. The wiring in the harness is slightly different to the diagram, same colours, just a different layout on the car. It may be that the wire that goes from the horn to the harness isn't provided, there's a lot like this on the harness.

Rear

A few more bullet connector sleeve things to buy. Not enough were supplied with the new harness, I've had to put in half a dozen so far to join bits up.
Bootlid/number plate light wiring I think is the mystery black/white wire. It's long enough and has a protective sheath and there's an empty socket in a double bullet connector that supplies the sidelights. To me, it makes most sense to have a wire running from here the the number plate light since that would be on with the sidelights. Why the wire provided wasn't red like the other sidelight wiring I don't know, so I'll be changing that out for red so it's cohesive.

Dashboard

Bulb holders provided for ignition and oil lights are incorrect. I need to remove the new bulb holders and wire in the original ones, this will also mean the bulb holders actually stay in the instrument panel. The new harness has an eyelet on the end of the ignition and oil light wires which should screw down to a tang on the bulb holder, there's then another wire from the bulb holders to the rest of the loom for completing the circuit. The new bulb holders are missing the tang completely and there's no way of connecting up the oil and ignition wires otherwise.
For the time clock there is the wire from ignition to main harness, but the wire from ignition to clock is not supplied.
Ignition/light switch is the only other item left to wire up. My hands got so cold I literally couldn't feel what I was doing and it being so fiddly with tiny brass screws I left this job today for fear of losing things.

Stator tube

New wiring for this is not included in the harness. I need four lengths of wire about 2 metres long in the relevant colours. Easy enough to sort that one out at least. Once that's done, I can reassemble the horn push and semaphore control.

Brakes

I need to remove, clean up, and reinstall the brake light switch. This is one item that didn't work when we got the car and it's probably dirty contacts because of where the brake switch sits under the car. Bit more involved a job than I wanted to get into today.

Other

I have a mystery yellow/black wire with a sheath that suggests it should be on the outside of the car. It's on the passenger side and doesn't reach anything present on the car as far as I can see. The diagram suggests it might be for the inspection lamp which our car either never had, or just didn't have when it came to us. It would reach the inner wing or bonnet underside, so it might just be that we need to stick an inspection light/socket in the engine bay to tidy that one away.


After the wiring is finished, the list looks like this:

Radiator and heater test/repair
Fit new engine mount
Flush block coolant
Change all oils
Fit rebuilt water pump
Fit new belts
Fit new hoses
Rebuild and refit boot lid
Adjust and service brakes
Remove, recondition, and refit fuel tank
Repair/replace exhaust system
Grease all grease points
Fit new front and rear window seals
Welding

There may be a few other items to go on the list I've not remembered here, it won't be a lot, it's not a complicated car.
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petelang



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 442
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vulgalour.
I note you mention
"For the time clock there is the wire from ignition to main harness, but the wire from ignition to clock is not supplied"
The clock must be battery fed, not from ignition, otherwise it will only run when ignition is on.
The Horns should be fed from ' A' on the RF95 regulator which is A for accessories and should be a battery supply. The returning wire to the junction box, then on to the stator tube and earth via the steering column.
The bootlid number plate should be fed from side lights, a RED wire. Black and white for this would be completely wrong. You just need to spur off from one side or other at the side lights. Could the mystery wire be to connect up for the saloon interior light? That seems more likely to me?
Hope this helps.
Peter
_________________
Daimler Fifteen 1934
Armstrong Siddeley 15 Long 1933
Daimler V8 250 1969
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The clock must be battery fed, not from ignition, otherwise it will only run when ignition is on."

I agree, and I have a theory on how it's done. I believe the white-black is a constant live from the battery and provides power to the ignition switch. The point it connects to the ignition switch then serves as a node so that the clock can wire directly to it and not be affected by whatever function the ignition switch on, so both items can share a constant live and not be affected by one another. At least, that's how it appears to work. The clock itself appears to earth through the body of the instrument panel. There's only one white-black wire in the car which can only reach as far as the ignition switch due to being in a branch of identical length wires that also go to the ignition switch, there needs to be an additional wire to reach the clock. The only other white-black wire is at the voltage regulator.


"The Horns should be fed from ' A' on the RF95 regulator which is A for accessories and should be a battery supply. The returning wire to the junction box, then on to the stator tube and earth via the steering column."

Agreed, and I think I've since worked this one out. On the driver's side there are two each of yellow-purple and yellow-black. These should go into a pair of double snap connectors. That then allows one each of yellow-black and yellow-purple to join the driver's side horn and the rest of the wiring to go across to the passenger side horn. Another suitable snap connector (also not provided) would then join up to new wire (also not provided) in yellow-black and yellow-purple to join up the passenger side horn.


"The bootlid number plate should be fed from side lights, a RED wire. Black and white for this would be completely wrong. You just need to spur off from one side or other at the side lights."

I agree with this too. I'm going to replace the black-white wire with a dual core red and black wire. This would then allow me to connect from the boot lid light to the spare sidelight socket in the boot, and the shared earth point.


"Could the mystery wire be to connect up for the saloon interior light? That seems more likely to me?"
Those wires are already accounted for, one black and one purple, and ready to connect. Also, the mystery wire isn't long enough to reach even if it were for that. It's been suggested it could also be for radio, and it would be long enough to go from a potential radio location to the voltage regulator so it may get repurposed for that.

The mystery yellow-black wire is still just that. The diagram suggests it's for an inspection lamp and that would make sense of the sheath since it would be living in the engine bay if so. I can't find another spare yellow-black wire that hasn't already been accounted for, but one may become apparent as I wire the rest up.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another brief update for you with this one.

The dashboard is fully wired up, it was not a joyful experience, but it is done.

The new bulb holders didn't stay put in the instrument panel, and the upper bulb holders were wired in a way that wasn't that easy to make use of, so I fitted the original bulb holders instead which are known to be good and stay in place and that made wiring things up a lot easier. When I first started the job I wouldn't have been confident enough to do that, but now I understand better what I'm looking at, it made sense and the hardest bit was battling with my cheap soldering iron. That means the new harness has the old bulb holders on it now.

On the plus side of rewiring the bulb holders, it gave me a redundant piece of wiring that I could then use for the time clock, so that's wired up and ready to go now and I really hope it does, I know these sorts of clocks don't always work sadly.

I have a shopping list for hopefully all the connectors I need now, including sizes, and a shopping list for all the wiring I need that isn't provided with the new harness. Once I've got those I can get the lights, horns, wiper motor switch, and brake light switch properly connected.

I only have two wires I don't know the purpose of. One is a yellow-black with a plastic sheath and there's nothing electrical in the area it goes to that isn't already connected. The other is the long length of black-white that also has a plastic sheath that doesn't correlate with anything in the car or on the diagram. The plastic sheath suggests these should be on the outside of the car, or the underside. However, since all the things on the car are now connected appropriately and these wires are left over, I'm really not sure what they're for. For now I'll just finish connecting everything, make sure everything works, and if those wires are still left over then I'll just not fit the black-white (it has no terminals on it, and is separate to the main harness), and I'll make sure the end of the yellow-black is capped off so it's not going to be a fire hazard or similar. The yellow-black could be for an inspection lamp, I've seen one photo of a Lanchester with one fitted, and it was in about the same place this wire goes to.

As a happy little bonus, next to the washer jet push there's two screw holes in the underside of the dashboard which are perfectly placed to hold a bracket for the power socket. I've also got a bunch of old cigarette lighters a neighbour gave me and I'm hoping one is a similar design to the washer jet push so that it doesn't stand out as much as the modern rubbery looking one.

Now just a case of waiting on parts arriving so I can finish the job.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while since there was a proper update. Life has mostly got in the way and I took a couple of weeks break from the video content.

Here's a tiny little update from today's adventures. Not sure what's going on with the dynamo, it decided the other day without Pat or I doing or touching anything that it was going to just be running as soon as the ignition was turned on so that's something to investigate. We were expecting to have to rebuild it so it's not the end of the world.

Anyway, here's a video that's less than a minute long of something working finally.

https://youtu.be/9nv63B-eWaA
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bjacko



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 351
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:14 am    Post subject: Lanchester Dynamo Reply with quote

If the dynamo ran when you turned ignition on the charging wiring must be crossed somewhere
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like the cut-out is permanently on. Take a look in the control box and I think you'll fine the cut-out contacts are closed. They should be open until the dynamo voltage is driven by the engine higher than the battery voltage. Or perhaps you have inadvertently connected the D terminal of the dynamo to an A terminal on the control box.

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect Peter's suggestion of a closed contact is likely, or at least more likely than a wiring issue. Since the dynamo just started spinning with nothing being turned on/off and no wiring being changed, it seems unlikely it would be a wiring issue. Especially since it's been wired exactly the same while I've been testing and connecting other items and it's just sat there quietly minding its own business.

We shall see what I find later this afternoon since I have some tinker time and lovely weather to enjoy.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6285
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect your ignition warning light stays on?

I understand the cut out not only stops the battery from being over charged, it also stops the battery from trying to run the dynamo like a starter motor; which is what yours seems to be doing.

If it's the cut out points that are sticking it was lucky you found it when you did as this is sometimes a cause of fire.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I've had time to have a fettle and do some more wiring work today, lots of bitty jobs that don't seem to amount to much, you know the sort.

They dynamo has gone to being constantly rotating, to almost constantly rotating.

On looking in the control box, the points in there were looking a little oxidised. The top one was very tight too, couldn't even get a piece of paper between the points. I cleaned off the corrosion I could and had to slacken the upper points to do so, so that's probably now out of adjustment.

The result is inconclusive. The IGN light doesn't stay on, even when the dynamo is rotating. Or rather, the dynamo and the IGN light are sometimes rotating/on and sometimes not, but not always at the same time. It's like there's some sort of intermittent issue happening.

I've wired the brake switch and learned the rods are sticky. Connected the earth for the rear lights, but still have no life out of any them. Front sidelights aren't connected yet, I need to order the correct bulbs since the ones I have are wrong. Semaphores are connected, but the stator tube hasn't been reinstalled yet so I don't know if those work or not yet.

I'm pretty close to having this job done, I'm just out of my depth on fault finding since I can't see what I might have done wrong when looking at the wiring diagram. It will likely be something obvious when I do find it. For now, battery is only connected when I'm actively testing something, the rest of the time its disconnected, just in case.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6285
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the spring on the armature O.K.?
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't see any issue, things seem to spring back without resistance, but then I don't really know what I'm looking at so there might be an issue I just don't have the experience to see. I'm wondering if the points gap had simply closed up.

I've had the battery on a slow charge so the next time I get to fettle I'll connect it up and see if it makes any difference. I fell down a rabbit hole of MG owners in America talking about problems with the control boxes, and one was that when the battery is low/flat it can cause the issue we've got with the dynamo at the moment and, in turn, can sometimes depolarise the dynamo.

I'd like to get the control box set up properly to make sure the gaps, etc. are as they should be but I've as yet not been able to find the information to do that. I had hoped it would be a case of resetting the points gap, fitting a fresh battery, and then testing the output to make sure it was within tolerance but honestly, I have no idea what I'm doing since this is all totally new to me so I could be wide of the mark with that guess for what needs doing.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/pdf/lucascourse5.pdf
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I got the wrong idea of what 'armature' was being referenced there, and now that I've had a read through the PDF kindly linked, I understand a bit better what needs to be going on. Eventually I'll figure out the search terms I need to be using to find information like that, I tend to not know the right question to ask, as it were, to get the answer I need.

On my first read through of the information I can see that I've got a bit more work to do before I can diagnose and test this issue, mainly that the water pump and radiator are not installed, so I can't really run the engine for long enough at high enough revs to test things. I'll have to have a proper read through of the document a couple of times, just to familiarise myself with it, and possibly get a couple of test tools I don't currently own since I've never done any of this sort of work before.

For now, I'll finish connecting the wires I haven't, disconnect the dynamo to prevent potential issues there, and test the control box et al once everything is in one piece again.
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