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Ford Pop Sidevalve Special - Exhaust mount
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drdean



Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:49 pm    Post subject: Ford Pop Sidevalve Special - Exhaust mount Reply with quote

Hi Guys

I have a Ford side valve special so am unsure of the standard exhaust mounts. My car has had the following configurations since I've owed it. The issue is that the exhaust is mounted to the 'side' of the chassis using standard exhaust mounting bushes (I'm not sure if this is how the normal Pop was mounted).

What happens is that the bushes are loaded vertically so there is quite a lot of shear stress on the rubber mountings. They tend to last for a few years but then both tend to give out simultaneously.

Is there a better way to hold the exhaust to the chassis?

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

I'll attempt to attach some photos of the sheared mounts.

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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a member of the FSOC, then the repop workshop manual has a 4 page section on the exhaust layout. [pps 63-66}
The original saloon system [ the prefect might be slightly different as it has a longer chassis compared to the Anglia/Pop/Thames.] was altered during production.
The original system has the down pipe/silencer [all in one] supported at its farthest end by a rubber and steel strap bracket.
The two rubber straps hung vertically from the cross member [with all the big holes in, in front of the rear spring crossmember]... bolted on to the chassis Xmember...[6 1/4 inches apart]...They were bolted to a metal strap, which was twisted at both ends, ,so the each end was vertical [to bolt to the rubber straps] with the centre section horizontal. To this centre section was bolted the clamp which went around the exhaust pipe, abaft the silencer box.
Thus the outer end of the main exhaust pipe was supported.

The tailpipe and kick-up over the axle [ on the van, a side exit instead]...has a clamp bolted via a rubber insulator to the chassis side, nar the top of the kick-up, before the axle.

The tail pipe end is supported via a long strap to the chassis side member, near the back end.
All these straps hang vertically.
Later chassis deleted the silencer support bracket, leaving the rear exhaust support to the two clamps on the tial pipe.

It appears from the photos that the top mountings have been replaced by 'Mini rubber dolly'' insulator mounts...and it is these that have sheared.

I think the rear exhaust mounts were simply long rubberised straps hanging down to the clamps, secured at the tops to the chassis.
Someone has used mini mounts for their ease of attachemnt,methinks?

Is there a support carrying the silencer pipe still fitted? {The front part of the exhaust]

What condition are the engine mounts and gearbox mounts?
Are the two engine stays still fitted?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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drdean



Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that information.

I don’t think my car can configure to the original mounts as it’s a special and has a bespoke exhaust system that sort of lies along the edge of the chassis.

I think what I was really asking is if there are any heavy duty rubber bushes that I can put a bolt ‘through’ rather than have the exhaust hanging on side loaded rubber (if you see what I mean). The current arrangement must have a lot of shear stress on those mounts.

Failing that I’ll just keep replacing them every few years.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just bolt the rubber straps more directly?

The mini dollies are very convenient. I also suspect they were used to provide a means of spacing the exhaust [mounts] away from the chassis rail.
So a long bolt, maybe a bit of tube to act as a spacer, with big washers at either end [and middle?] then secure the straight straps to the end?

Much like a modern exhaust system mount, which has bits of round bar welded [or bolted] to various structural parts, and rubber loops hooked over the ends, to support the exhaust?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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drdean



Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Won’t that make the connection between exhaust and chassis too rigid? I thought it needed rubber to buffer any exhaust vibration?
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1733
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:

Much like a modern exhaust system mount, which has bits of round bar welded [or bolted] to various structural parts, and rubber loops hooked over the ends, to support the exhaust?


Which can be a pain in the neck to deal with, just as much as rusted up nuts and bolts can be. I had one modern where the rubber loop type exhaust mountings kept working themselves loose - first one at the back would go (like every couple of weeks) and if that wasn't sorted pronto the rest would gradually follow. I sorted it in the end by putting a little tension on the first one to go, used a big spring off an old sun longer and a couple of lengths of plug/cistern chain plus some other odds and ends... Laughing
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drdean wrote:
Won’t that make the connection between exhaust and chassis too rigid? I thought it needed rubber to buffer any exhaust vibration?


The exhaust pipe is surrounded by a clamp [as per Ford] This is then supported on a straight rubber strap. The rubber strap is then bolted to the chassis somewhere. Thus the exhaust is insulated from the solid chassis mount, by the rubber strap.
The issue is, whoever secured this exhaust originally, used mini dollies to secure the rubber strap to the chassis. These dollies are fine in compression, but weak when sideways forces are imposed.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6283
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:

These dollies are fine in compression, but weak when sideways forces are imposed.


Where did you learn all this stuff? Confused
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a drawer full of halves of mini dollies...Sometimes useful for 'joining' two disparate lumps of metal. If one ignores the tatty bit of rubber that will be attached?
My main use for mini dollies is to secure Facet fuel pumps. But they do not last forever, in my motoring world.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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drdean



Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
These dollies are fine in compression, but weak when sideways forces are imposed.


That was really my original question. In the confined space that I have is there an alternative to these dollies? I can’t ‘hang’ my exhaust with straps or rubbers as it’s not under the car. Can I bolt it through with a thick rubber bush or washer? Or is there an alternative mounting arrangement I could use in this space? Failing that I’ll just keep using the dollies and replace them every few years.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps try a piece of angle steel bolted to the chassis, and the rubbers bolted to that, vertically, instead?

Another method could be to mount the vertical rubber strip off to the side off the exhaust pipe proper? This could then be underneath the edge of the chassis, and bolted directly to it?
A suitable common exhaust clamp could be used, and one of the two ends of the U bolt used to carry the straight, vertical, rubber strap?

The bases of these clamps provide a flat surface on which to secure stuff.
I use then to secure heavy sump guards to tubular cross members...
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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View user's profile Send private message
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