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1951 Lanchester LD10
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the information, that's good to have.

The other thing I forgot to mention is that the dynamo is working normally again. I had to disconnect it at the voltage regulator for testing the rear lights and didn't want it running. Afterwards, just in case, I reconnected it and now it appears to be operating normally just as it was before. I can only assume it must have got stuck "on" somehow and unplugging it and plugging it back in has unstuck it.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been a while. Everything is very busy here. However, there is another video (I will be doing a write up on the most recent one as soon as I'm able for you) which covers investigating and fixing the boot lid and its wiring. Contains mystery cocoons.

https://youtu.be/818W8FzWEQE
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another video. This time investigating the innards of the Lucas Model SW4 wiper motor.

https://youtu.be/lwqfSys29UU

Hoping to have time this week to do the write up for the previous video.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, excellent video, thank you.

The little screw in the non-geared end, in the middle, is to set the 'pre-load' of the commutator shaft pinion..the 'backlash,' if you like.
It should not be screwed in supa-tite. Nor should it be to slack.
But a tiny bit of free play in the shaft I think is necessary.
There would be a Lucas method of adjusting or setting that pre-load somewhere [I cannot currently find it]...
Experiment a bit whilst running the motor [on top of the battery] to see if adjusting that screw makes the motor turn faster, or not?

But , if it is screwed home too tight, then that would put a 'load' onto the motor.

The U shaped lump of steel is part of the motor's magnet set-up. Which is why it can only go back on, one way.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I tightened up the screw I did it until it felt 'right'. Motor seems to run okay but I'll see if it makes any difference when I've got the wipers reconnected and some actual load on it. You might actually be able to help with some advice on the latest purchase for the Lanchester. I really struggled to find anything at all on the SW4 motor apart from some suggestions to either buy a new one or replace it with something else, which both seemed a bit drastic since it looks to be a fairly robust little thing.

It's payday so an additional little Lanchester update here. Because the Lanchester uses 7" headlights it does mean I can upgrade what's there. The original lights are 40/50W BPF bulbs and they're... rubbish. It also doesn't help that the silvering on the bowls is bubbling in places and while we're not likely to drive at night a lot, having your headlights on does make you more visible to other road users who might not otherwise see you so an upgrade makes sense.

Originally I was considering re-silvering the headlight bowls and getting new original style light bulbs. The cost of this for what you end up with seemed prohibitive in all honesty. Given how easy it is to acquire a good H4 upgrade kit, and how affordable, it made more sense to modernise. I've gone with the same sort of kit I used on the Princess which I've had no issues with, and while I did have to buy some extra pigtails since the Lanchester wiring hasn't got the modern three slot plug for halogen bulbs, it still came out at a meagre £35.

I also opted to go for headlight bowls that have sidelight bulbs in them. Nothing fancy, no LED rings or anything like that, just a single bulb pushed through into the bowl. There's no real need for the sidelights to be separate from the headlights on the Lanchester so it doesn't really matter where they're located and if I move them into the headlights that frees up the original sidelights completely. This then makes wiring up the front indicators a lot easier since I can reuse the original bulb holders and fit some nice bright amber single function LEDs in there. It's a really good location for the indicators since they're high up on the body and very visible and because we'd not be adding any other lights anywhere, it keeps the front of the car looking completely standard. Funnily enough, the sidelights are mistaken for indicators by younger (folks under 40) people anyway, so it makes sense to put them in there for that reason too.

What I'm not sure of is whether or not I'll need to fit a relay for the headlights. The H4s will be brighter than the original BPFs but I'm not sure if the draw on the system is going to be such that it will be an issue. I'd welcome opinions and recommendations on this one since I want it to be safe but I also don't want to be adding complexity if it's going to be perfectly fine without them.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my view, a relay for each light is advantageous.

My Mustang came with a lot of LED light replacements...
The rear lights are LED arrays, to give the lawfully required amber flashing indicators, and separate brake and tail light appearances, via the main [red] tail lights....{US cars have a different way of doing things]
The front side light are in the headlamp bowls, and are LED bulbs..but the headlights are more comentional.

However, I have noticed that, if driving on sidelights alone [during the daytime] the little LED sidelight bulbs show up quite distinctly for some distance [being the annoying pure white light]. Probably more noticeable to other road users than if the headlights were actually on.

I do not approve of those ring LED displays around headlights though....I feel they are overkill, and if not extinguished once the headlights themselves are switched on, can lead to some weird dazzling effects for oncoming drivers. I think, one small LED bulb within the headlamp unit should be bright enough for daytime usage.
I note a lot of old style [but new] motorcycles [Enfields, for example] come equipped with little LED daytime running lights which serve the same purpose as having the headlamp switched on, with less current draw,
methinks?

One 'danger' I can foresee when mixing front indicators [or rears] within existing lamp usints concerns visual definition.
In other words, can other road users instantly differentiate where to look , on another vehicle, for an indication?

CAn the indicators be easily recognised amongst all other illuminated lights?

Remember, the longer it takes for a road user to identify another's indication of intention, the less time they have to acknowledge and respond to that indication.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the relays side of things, I'm probably going to make use of the Boomslang relay kit used for Landrovers to do exactly what I'm doing here on the Lanchester, it's been recommended a few times now and it's quite affordable, saves me the frustration of trying to diy which I appreciate with anything wiring related.

As for indicator visibility, precisely because younger (under 40) drivers assume the wing mounted sidelights are the indicators is why we're converting them to be just that. It's where the majority of drivers are going to look for an indicator when they see the front of the car so it's a sensible place to put them. Likewise at the back, we're bringing the indicators up to eye line by putting them in the rear window alongside a high level brake light since that's where drivers now expect to see them. We don't affect the appearance of the car since none of the 'wrong' lights are visible unless they're in use.

--

New headlights arrived, new wiring arrives in a bit. I'm not up to much today, off sick at the moment (nothing serious, happily) but I needed to get some movement and fresh air so decided to have a look at these headlights and how they fit. They're a straight swap. Wiring aside, you literally take the old headlight bowl out and fit the new one in exactly the same way. Could not be easier.


You can see the bubbling the silvering on the old bowls here, they're both like it for most of the bottom half which is hardly ideal.


Chose domed lenses rather than flat ones so the shape would be correct, I really dislike the look of flat lenses on classics, especially when it's in the teardrop shaped headlights like these. The sidelight bulb sits in the bottom in line with the headlamp clamp and there's so much room inside the headlight bucket that wiring those up isn't going to be an issue.


If you know what you're looking for you can tell the difference between old (on the left) and new (on the right). To the casual observer they look totally normal, only the H4 branding and the lens pattern really gives the game away from normal viewing distance. It's a pretty stealthy upgrade really.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6286
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your Lanchester appears to have "stepped" headlamp rims. Would they always have been 7" or do you suppose they could have had 8" lenses at one time?


When I got my car it was fitted with 7" sealed beam lamps but the original 8" rims were with the car. I was incredibly lucky to find a pair of n.o.s. domed lenses correct for the car at a very modest price and have converted to halogen bulbs. The brightness may not be as much as halogen but they apparently do have a better beam spread.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our car probably always had 7", I hadn't really thought about it until you mentioned it. I had a look at as many LD10 photos as I could find that show them, and it appears that some have the same rings as ours and some (both Barker and Briggs cars) have a smooth ring with a more pronounced dome to the lens. I assume the smooth ring ones are 8" lamps.

Given that we didn't remove sealed beams from car but rather BPFs, my suspicion would be that the 7" are original to our car and it didn't receive an upgrade. Our car is from the last year of production so it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that Lanchester would upgrade their models to the latest in whatever technology was compatible for things like lighting.

I'm just guessing here at any rate, I don't know with any certainty beyond the fact that 7" lamps are what it has.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/818W8FzWEQE

Time for the boot lid refurbishment written update. This was part of the car I was actually looking forward to investigating because it would give me a look at how the body was constructed since the boot lid is an ash frame with an aluminium skin. The first job was to remove the dozens of chrome plated flat head screws from the aluminium interior panel so that it could be removed and expose what was going on inside the boot lid. Primarily the reason for undertaking this job was to find out what was happening with the wiring since there wasn't any present for the number plate light when we got the car.


We found some weird cocoons. These are probably moth cocoons, they're on the same side as the one bit of moth damage to the wool covering the rear parcel shelf and the moths and caterpillars would have an easy route into the car between the two areas. If you know what these are for definite I'd love to know, because bugs are interesting.




It all cleaned off very easily. There was nothing living in the cocoons any more and no signs of any moths in the car or the boot lid so they've probably vacated the premises a long time ago. No damage inside the boot lid either, the wooden frame is nice and solid and dry with no signs of insect damage, the aluminium is in excellent condition and the steel edge that runs around the wood frame and under the aluminium outer skin has little more than a bit of surface rust here and there.




The interior aluminium panel has some damage on it, one puncture from the boot lid probably being shut on something inside the boot before we got the car, and a curved line of missing paint that seemed to correlate with the old tyres that were being kept in the boot. You can see the o-ring at the top of the panel here too, that's where the wiring should exit the boot lid. When I drilled some of the chewed up screw heads out, the drill skipped and damaged the aluminium in places. It couldn't be helped, unfortunately.






The old screws look to be flat headed chromed steel. While most of them came out, some snapped, and some the heads were too soft from rust and just chewed up. I had to drill some of them out.




Interestingly, we were made aware of some sale advert photos from eBay in 2008 when the Lanchester was wearing a differently coloured boot and bonnet. It also sported a much nicer looking rear bumper. When I recorded this video I didn't know about this and could only speculate about the extra bolt holes for the number plate and the chopped off bolt I found inside the boot that had been rattling about. I wonder if the boot lid in the photos is actually a different one to what's on the car at present and the original number plate was swapped over. The boot lid on the car does have a dent that doesn't appear to be there in the photo below and we do know the car was possibly a parts car at one point in its life so it's entirely likely we've got slightly worse parts on the car now than it had in 2008 because the good stuff was sold off or used in another restoration. It happens.




Other discoveries were where the wiring should run inside the boot. There's a guide staple on the central beam, and a couple of holes drilled in the frame for the wire to pass through. More on this in a bit.


There's no grommet for the wiring to the number plate lamp which simple bolts through the outer skin.


I spent some time with an improvised dolly and a hammer to dress out the puncture on the aluminium interior trim as best I could. It's not perfect, but it's not a hole, so it'll do. I have zero experience doing any sort of aluminium bodywork so it is what it is.


It was then time to remove the broken screws from the wooden frame before I could refit things. This took a while making use of a pair of pliers. The vast majority of the remaining screws did come out, only a couple snapped inside the frame where I couldn't get to them so that's about the best outcome you can realistically have on a job like this.




Everything now cleaned up, it was time to rewire. The wire for the number plate light isn't provided with the wiring loom so I had to buy some more. Since this wire is for the most part hidden, which just a small part visible where it exits the boot lid and hooks up behind the trim under the rear window, I opted for a black vinyl sheathed 2-core since I needed a red and a black wire with a protective covering. I ordered a couple of meters because it's a fairly long run since it goes from the bottom of the boot lid, up to the rear screen, across to the driver's side of the car, then all the way down the inner arch inside the boot to the bottom outer corner where the rest of the wiring loom enters the car.




Once the wire is fed through the hole for the number plate lamp, feed it under the vertical beam to the opposite side.




Then guide it up (boot lid is upside-down here, the shape meant I had to film it this way) through the hole drilled in the horizontal beam before tightening the bolts for the number plate lamp.




There's a staple to hold the wire down to the vertical beam, another hole in the next horizontal beam, and then the wire exits through the hole in the aluminium interior trim where the rubber grommet is in the earlier photos in this update. Once the wire is threaded through, turn the boot lid over and put the push connectors onto the end of the wires. This is very fiddly, there's not a lot of room for the wiring to go inside the lamp housing because of how it's designed. It took me a while to find out what these connectors are called, I found them as Push-in Bullet Connectors on Paul Beck Vintage Supplies www.vintagecarparts.co.uk listed as 560-push on their site search function. These are the same as used on the original headlights and semaphores. To fit, you strip back the sheath from the wire, push the wire through the hole in the connector and then bent the wires back. This gives a friction fit into the holder without need of soldering and works very well. I took a guess at which way around the wires should go and got it right, remember our car is positive earth.




After that it was the task of screwing all the dozens of screws in to hold the interior panel in place. I decided against using any sort of sealant or adhesive in the end just in case I have to get in here again for any reason. The first screws I got were just a bit too short so I had to undo them all and redo it with slightly longer screws. I'm also using cross head wood screws rather than the original style of chromed flat head screws. This was a practical consideration since I couldn't get hold of the chromed ones at the time of recording, I may go back and correct this in the future.




All back together and looking like none of this ever happened. Sign of a job well done is that. I opted not to repaint the interior trim to avoid project creep. Next up, to do something about the missing trim that goes over the latch mechanism. I have no reference for what this should look like and limited materials so used some hardboard. Trial and error got the shape I wanted. Eventually I'd like more of a pressed blister shaped panel, possibly in steel or aluminium, to full enclose the mechanism since what I've done is okay but I don't think is right. If anyone knows what this should look like, I'd appreciate reference images.


I didn't like the colour. I had wanted to use millboard to match the other original bits of trim but didn't have any and couldn't get hold of any at the time of recording, so I just used some satin black spray paint and it got me close enough.


With the boot lid now ready to go back on the car, the next thing was to sort out the hinges. We'd knocked out the brass pins to remove the boot lid and found one was bent. Later we learned about the location of the hinge bolts which would have made removal a lot easier. I spent some time straightening the pins as best I could and turning the burr on one end of each into a mild chamfer using a hand file. This would aid in refitting.


When we got the car, the hinge pins weren't flush but after some effort, Pat and I had them seated properly and looking much better.




The panel I'd made for the interior was cosmetically a waste of time. Practically it should protect things from going into the boot lid a bit more so I don't feel it was a total waste.


The other thing we noticed on refitting is that the bolts holding the hinges to the boot lid are incorrect. Instead of a countersunk head, they're a flat bolt head. I don't have any of the correct fixings so just put them back in.




With that all finally back together and the wiring ready to be hooked up - which we now know is correct, but I didn't at the time of recording - I could demonstrate how horrible the boot is to use on this car. Lift the boot by the handle at the bottom, it is at an awkward height. Then hold the boot lid with one arm while pulling out the hinge on one side with the other to lock the boot in the open position.


Do your very best not to hit your head on the boot lid when putting items in the boot, or removing them. Everything is at the wrong height to make this easy to do and the boot lid will usually get you on your way out.


To close, merely brace the boot lid with one hand, push the hinge in without trapping parts of your hand in it, and try to gently lower it to close. You'll probably end up slamming it because you're not expecting the weight and at one point the balance of the whole thing changes and if you're not careful it will try and slam whatever you do.


It's a terrible bit of design, both in function and appearance, definitely not one of Barker's finer moments.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done!

Another very good write-up and result.

Mounting these heavy things can be a real challenge. In my car it's the bonnet. It needs to be installed complete. Each side is heavy enough on its own and with three hinged sections to control it's not easy especially when working single handed.



Peter.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine that's like trying to put a cat in a box.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6286
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep up the good work.!

What I like is how you are so honest about everything. Some people make it all sound so easy... when it's not!

Ray.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it's just as important to show how difficult a job can be as it is how easy a job can be. We're all learning as we go and seeing other people mess things up along the way as part of the process can really help with motivation if your own efforts aren't going so well.

As it happens, the boot lid job went a lot smoother than I was expecting. If nobody had fiddled about with it before us I daresay it would have actually been an easy job. Well, other than refitting, it's not a very easy panel to handle on your own.
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1733
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vulgalour wrote:
I imagine that's like trying to put a cat in a box.


Putting a cat in a box is easy enough when you know how. Have the open end of the box facing up, hold the cat's hind paws in one hand and lower in tail first, then close the box fast. Then when you get to the vet's surgery the cat doesn't want to come out of the box... Laughing
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