Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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consul 57
Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 487
Location: somerset
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 Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Rootes75 wrote: | | Since the start of the pandemic there has been a noticeable disregard for the speed limits through the village, I think people just dont care anymore. |
there is certainly a group who think coz the roads are quieter they can speed a lot more, pulling out of a town junction with no one around then checking mirrors soon after finding a car right up behind you, must have been speeding to catch up that quickly.
i just don't let them hassle me, taking my time to do junctions, and keeping to the limit.
put some L plates on your car and see what happens then! |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think there's an increase in those on the roads having a total disregard for the Law. The sort who don't see why they cannot drive 50 miles to go to the beach [during a lockdown]...or have a party in some normally quiet beauty spot [Is there such a thing nowadays anyway?]
It's definitely a ''couldn't care less'' attitude.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Bitumen Boy
Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1735
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:11 am Post subject: |
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A tidy looking Triumph Vitesse convertible, heading south from the lights at Crumlin before the sun disappeared this afternoon. Dark coloured - black or possibly a very dark blue or grey (I'm not very good with subtle variations of colour) - and with the hood very properly down  |
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Rick
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22437
Location: UK
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Rootes75
Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3803
Location: The Somerset Levels
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Just saw a restored Allis Chalmers up on the back of a trailer bwing towed through the village.
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Various Rootes Vehicles. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6303
Location: Derby
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Rootes75
Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3803
Location: The Somerset Levels
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Lovely local registered Ford Pop 103E drove past us in the vilage this morning.
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Various Rootes Vehicles. |
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MrWhite
Joined: 09 May 2017
Posts: 105
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| alastairq wrote: | I do a reasonable number of [essential] journeys throughout the whole period since last year. I live quite rural, so need to travel anything from half a dozen, to , probably up to 20-plus, miles distant for essential jobs [I'm paid by the State to avoid work, for the sake of the younger generations, no doubt?]
I have a small family, inside a bubble, although I live an isolated [by choice] existence.
Being rural, I have a choice of routes I can take to get to my regular places, either main roads, or rural back roads/lanes/tracks.
By choice, I do my best to avoid the major routes, even if that means an extra mile or so. But I also dad's taxi around my son , to feed him, and help him cope with what the rest of your world throws his way, which might involve a trip to a maccydees drive thru for a hot choccy or one of their excellent coffees. [At 99p, I cannot understand how starbux or costla can charge so much for basic coffee?]
So I find I'm still doing nearly a couple of hundred miles each week or so.
What I have noticed, is the marked increase in poor driving standards.
Not from the 'new' drivers, but from what appear to be , the older generations [30-upwards!]
A marked increase in the total disregard for Highway Code, road markings, signs etc.
Never mind the urban speed limits.
I also note an increase in RTCs in the area...folk smacking into each other, or just themselves.
It's almost as if the older population are saying, sodditt, I don't care any more, no-one will bother to bring me to account....etc..
It's as if this covid thing has affected peoples' brains....made them even more self-centred than usual.
Or is it, the drivers in my local, fairly rural location are finally catching up with the urban nightmares that pass for drivers in the big conurbations?
Anyway, I always know when a major route has been 'shut', in my travels, by the number of drivers I meet on my back routes who aren't used/able to deal with narrow-ish, what might be deemed single track, lanes, as they wander around the Wolds on their diversions?
How come they always expect me to get out of their way when we meet?
I'm always happy to take to the greens to pass anybody...providing I see they they, too, are happy to do their bit as well. |
I also live (by choice) in a fairly rural area and there are lots of drivers who don't seem to be able to cope with narrow roads. I tend to blame it on 'bigger cars', you know the kind, longer, wider, higher and most people who have them have no idea how big they are so they over-compensate and even though you should have "right of way" they are right over your side, not leaving enough room for you to safely get past. What they should do is wait, but oh no, no-one wants to wait, that seems to be beneath them! Most modern cars (mine included) are pretty quick of the mark, so no one wants to wait at junctions any more (except me) and just pull out, and you have to slow down for them, when your on the main road. There's one place I go in a town where there's a narrower bit in the road. It's a slight downhill and I am usually traveling up the hill, with parked cars on my side. It's like a game if 'chicken', you have to stop at the narrow part but then you are dodging in and out between the parked cars to get up and it's rare for anyone to want to give up their right of way, so you can wait for 10 minutes easily, even though there isn't that much traffic. Even when there's space for 2 cars to pass the ones coming down hill don't want to let you pass so they move over the road, in an attempt to make you slow/stop, it's unbelievably blatant too and really Not a good idea. I haven't been out much since the lock-down so haven't noticed a particular difference due to this, this is just general modern/bad driving and yes I know it is worse in the cities, which i why I rarely go there now . 
Last edited by MrWhite on Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | so no one wants to wait at junctions any more (except me) and just pull out, and you have to slow down for them, when your on the main road. |
To be fairm what you describe as having to do, is actually what is expected of a driver or rider.
One simply does not have a 'right' to continue on regardless of what is ahead of one. Especially on the major route. But not a lot of folk actually recognise this, and blatt on regardless. It's the same when negotiating roundabouts. People drive around roundabouts in a manner which relies totally on their expectation that, since they are on the roundabout, everybody else intending [or actually] entering must 'give way'. In reality, when negotiating that roundabout, one still has a [legal] duty to exercise proper care in doing so. Which doesn't mean one has the right to wellie round at high speed. Especially when one personally cannot see entry points ahead, due to one's view being obstructed. At some point, a driver negotiating a roundabout will in fact become a ''following vehicle'', rather than a 'crossing vehicle''
It's all down to a great misunderstanding of what is meant by ''giving way!"
BAsically of course, to 'give way' to another vehicle easn, not doing anything which might make that vehicle ''slow down, change speed or alter course.''
Although retired now, I was in the business of driver training, and this question of assessing whether a 'give way' has been fulfilled or ignored was raised all to frequently. It is somewhat vague & lacking in understanding, as a Rule.
To help a student understand what they could, or could not do, I always added the word ''dramatically'' to that definition.
In other words, one must not compel the other road user to take dramatic action.
In terms of the Law, I suspect such a definition would be covered by the word 'reasonable?'
What is reasonable when giving way or being given way to?
For example, a slow moving vehicle like a tractor & trailer, may enter a roundabout when, as far as the driver can reasonably see, there is no traffic coming from their right.
But, because they are a slow, and often long, vehicle, they may be well onto the roundabout when a vehicle could come from the right at speed...after the tractor has entered. That vehicle would be confronted by the tractor 'crossing' in front of them. Is there a 'failure to give way' on the part of the tractor driver?
Nope!
The other driver has a duty to still exercise 'care', even though they may think they have a priority.
They are a 'following vehicle' at that point.
When confronted with someone pulling out across one's path, from a Give Way line, the question I ask myself [or, would ask the student driver] would be, did I have to cope with what they did, dramatically? Or did I cope with a normal, reasonable[perhaps already started to do, regardless?] adjustment of speed?
A difference between, coming off the gas? Or stamping on the brake pedal?
A lot of drivers consider the air space for many many yards in front of them as 'theirs'......Which, of course, is not the case.
| Quote: | | There's one place I go in a town where there's a narrower bit in the road. It's a slight downhill and I am usually traveling up the hill, with parked cars on my side. It's like a game if 'chicken', |
What is described here is another set piece scenario which I used to have to instruct LGV students on 'how to deal with the impossible situation'.
In preparation for what I suspect would occur when they were on test?
The answer lay in the manner in which they dealt with that scenario. especially when they themselves could not physically see too far ahead, due to the curvature of the road, and presence of buildings blocking their view, etc etc.
The essence involved speed and position.
the objective was, to leave sufficient clear space alongside to their right, to allow a [suddenly appearing, often too quickly] vehicle room too pass down their side.
Which meant, slowing right down , then tucking themselves in tightly to the parked vehicles. [Slow down, move in. Move out, speed up, was the mantra]
The slow speed allowed our lorry driver to cope with the sudden appearance of an oncoming vehicle with comfort [not the other drivers,obvioulsy,tey're likely panicking at this point!]....and to cope with comfort if someone opened a door on a parked vehicle.......or indeed, to be able to stop [in comfort] should that oncoming vehicle be apparently unable to cope?
It worked, but took discipline.
''Stopping'' is the ultimate solution though. By stopping, one is placing the ball entirely in the other driver's court, so to speak. providing that, when doing so, one's road position is such that there is sufficient room for the other person to pass, with care.
Of course, a wise drive notes reg numbers in such an instance, or has a dash cam going....
For, if a contact is made, the other party has struck a 'stationary vehicle'...handy when it comes to sorting 'liability'...
The point is, there is a solution to every sort of situation.
It may not be what one would wish to do, but remains a solution regardless.
In the end, the DVSA becomes the arbiter.
Personally, I stop when confronted, and let them sort themselves out.
They don't like it, but heck, they can lump it, as long as I'm complying with the rules.....
I avoid the cities mainly because they stink!
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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I want to add, on a driving test, the Examiner will take a dim view when a candidate displays an act of 'bullying' of other road users.
Personally, I now make full use of what I knew when working, to colour much of how I drive.
I do my absolute best to not 'bully' other drivers into doing what I'd like them to do.
I achieve that end, by ''persuasion'' instead.
Often the difference is 'how' one persuades.
Avoiding being 'in yer face', 'persuasion' happens when the other party accommodates me without stress.
If confronted with a narrow bit of road, by reducing my speed when entering, and keeping tucked well out of the way [even in a big vehicle, which I don't drive nowadays]....by not forcing a passage, but gently making my way, oncomers don't feel intimidated. I can always stop with comfort [I don't like drama]...
I also know when others are trying to bully me!
In town if that happens, yup, I stop. On my side of the centre line. But my vehicle control is good enough that I can position myself in such a manner that the oncoming bully has to slow and negotiate a narrow gap, to continue. They cannot 'blame' me at all...after all, I stopped [forfeited] for them...but I make sure the inconvenience is theirs as well as mine....
That centre line road marking is a useful road sign to use.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Penman
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4755
Location: Swindon, Wilts.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Hi alastairq
As another exADI (44yrs) I think that there are, as you say, far too many people who misunderstand the words give way and always consider when in a priority position consider that they have "Right of Way".
I always made a point of explaining and reinforcing when necessary that "There is No Such Thing as Right of Way"
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Bristols should always come in pairs.
Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10 |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Penman wrote: | Hi alastairq
As another exADI (44yrs) I think that there are, as you say, far too many people who misunderstand the words give way and always consider when in a priority position consider that they have "Right of Way".
I always made a point of explaining and reinforcing when necessary that "There is No Such Thing as Right of Way" |
Hi Penman...I wasn't an ADI [although I did do the odd Cat B licence acquisition]...
I was Specialist Instructor working for the MoD.
I spent around 5 years instructing Cat C & C+E [including DSA Registration, which I stopped when my employer refused to pay the new subscriptions...didn't need DSA registration for my job!
After that, I went over to the dark side of military driver training, although went back to License Division as & when demand required. Latterly, we all had to do the odd Cat C driver training to keep ourselves in-date, as far as the military were concerned. [They have much stricter criteria about what where when & with whom Specialist Instructors could do their thing....but the wanted us all to be able to multi-role, essentially, at will?
The dark side involved a lot of assessing, mentoring, coaching of driver skills on top of the course instruction for whatever course we were running at the time.
Military drivers had standards to maintain whenever they were driving. It was our job to 'help' them do so.
There were over 130 instructors in my department alone....Never mind licence division, or Advanced Training wing, or classrooms, Validation, Course Design, Defence Driving Examiner, and stuff like Master Driver courses, Military management, etc.
Courses varied enormously, from LAnd Rover TUL/M driver/user, to stuff like saff car driver, Attache driving courses [4 tonnes of armoured Land Cruiser is fun!], we also handled blue light stuff, as well as all the wheeled vehicle military driver/commander courses...across all arms..and civilian customers.
All my later students were already licence holders....but unless constantly upgraded or refreshed, as with all drivers, there is a degree of skill fade. always apparent. Those youngsters 17-18 years old] fresh from Licence acquisition were the best, they hadn't been able to get stale.
As the DVSA mention when looking at the Cat C LGV syllabus for the test, the standards are higher than for cars....as they mention, they expect a higher standard of driving from an experienced driver, when going for an LGV test.
Which essentially means, where as an Examiner may assess a car candidate from the basis that they do not have experience, that isn't the case when assessing an lGV licence candidate.
That means, faults an examiner may well 'ignore' if the circumstances allow, with a Cat B candidate, may not be ignored for a Cat C candidate...and even less so for a C+E candidate.
The tests aren't necessarily 'harder' Just less forgiving. In fact, I think the Cat B test is probably the hardest of all the driving tests.
Once passed, as you know, the Law provides the governance of a driver.
This is where my students were supposed to be...
In fact, a real problem which could result in considerable expense occurred when students turned up to do one or other driver course, where the course pre-qualifications demanded their driving standards to be at a decent level. Often [more often than not] they weren't. These were also experienced drivers..ie had their licenses a few years...
The customer [who sent the individual on a course] wasn't best pleased if said individual was immediately returned whence they came, having failed the initial driving assessment.
The Course Design team dealt with that issue by placing the initial assessments a few days into the course...to give the Course Instructors time to polish up their students driving skills.
Otherwise there would be a constant stream of students at the gate going back home.
One would have thought that , knowing personnel were going on a specialist driving course, someone with the necessary skills back home would have had them out beforehand polishing their driving skills? [Every unit had a Master Driver]
We ourselves had regular driving assessments, in line with DVSA policy, and conducted by our colleagues who were DVSA accredited.
2 1/2 hours out there including manoeuvering, often in a vehicle of their choice, not ours....depended on what they had available, usually.....if it was a car, then a car it was. If they only had an artic, so be it!
East peasy really [ practice what you preach, essentially]...they got the max number of faults wrong one time, misread the criteria, set it at 2 faults only....when it should have been a max of 7 faults!
One missed mirror check, and a fault recorded.....No leeway allowed whatsoever!
No benefit of the doubt allowed either.
Our line managers, by being out of the fray for so long, often 'failed' their assessments....
I suppose the purpose from our viewpoint was , to employ instructors whose task it was to polish up other instructors....
On the topic of preparedness? Now & again [IE, if found doing nothing?] I got tasked to 'take out new applicants' from the 'outside', who had applied to be Cat C instructors.
Usual greetings, quick grab of relevant paperwork, work ticket & keys, and out we went. Not for a really long assessment, more like 30 minutes, just to get an idea of what standard the applicant was at?
Just recording what I saw...
Then a debrief at the end, and a quickie write-up.
It never ceased to amaze me how many long term LGV drivers didn't even 'know' the relevant speed limits?
Yet, they had applied for a job as an LGV Instructor?
Did they think all it would involve was trying to get a student to ''do as they had always done?''
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Penman
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4755
Location: Swindon, Wilts.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
| alastairq wrote: | On the topic of preparedness? Now & again [IE, if found doing nothing?] I got tasked to 'take out new applicants' from the 'outside', who had applied to be Cat C instructors.
Usual greetings, quick grab of relevant paperwork, work ticket & keys, and out we went. Not for a really long assessment, more like 30 minutes, just to get an idea of what standard the applicant was at?
Just recording what I saw...
Then a debrief at the end, and a quickie write-up.
It never ceased to amaze me how many long term LGV drivers didn't even 'know' the relevant speed limits?
Yet, they had applied for a job as an LGV Instructor? |
Likewise; I find it hard to believe that most, if not all, people who apply to train as ADIs have shown no previous commitment to improving their own driving either using one of the well known Advanced Driver organisations or asking a local ADI for an assessment.
For a short time, while instructing, I had a contract with one of the companies giving instruction for TA members and had tests out of Fulwood and also on one occasion the TA centre at Allerton(?) Liverpool.
I later worked for an ex-Master Driver, last heard of living in Lytham.
_________________
Bristols should always come in pairs.
Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10 |
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MVPeters
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 822
Location: Northern MA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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1 Brown
1 White
1 Red
1, 2, 3 immaculate E-type 2+2s all on a car transporter heading North on rte93 out of Boston, MA this afternoon.
You don't see that every day.
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Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S' |
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Rootes75
Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3803
Location: The Somerset Levels
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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A red Scimitar has now appeared in the car park where I work, I have asked about and apparently the new chap works in our large warehouse.
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Various Rootes Vehicles. |
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