classic car forum header
Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Register     Posting Photographs     Privacy     F/book OCC Facebook     OCC on Patreon

Tracking tool recommendation
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Vintage Motoring-Related Toys, Tools & Accessories
Author Message
pogo



Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 51
Location: Limousin. France

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Tracking tool recommendation Reply with quote

Hi.

After much debating with myself, reading reviews and internal struggles, I decided to buy one of these tracking tools that are driven over to show the alignment of the wheels.

I have used it on my Saab 9-5 and MGF, and adjusted the tracking accordingly. They both now drive nice and straight with the steering wheel centered.

I adjusted the tracking on my Jaguar and fiat Ducato van several months ago with a laser level and tape measure, and although it was time consuming and tricky, both run straight and have even tyre wear. So, I decided to run both of these over the tracking tool, and they both showed perfect adjustment.

Although this tool is a very basic adjustment, I certainly think it is value for money, as out here in France, wheel alignment is €80, and even then they seem to balls it up Laughing

If anyone has several cars, and are thinking of spending about £50 on one of these, I would recommend they do, its very easy to use, but make sure you have a nice flat level surface before buying one.

I may not be able to name the tool, but it is easy to find on certain auction sites. PM me for the name, if you want to be certain


Hope this helps someone.
_________________
http://www.centralfrancestorage.com/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Trakrite gauge by Gunsons, and find it very good. The only difficulty is reaching under the car while it is on the ground to adjust the track rod ends.

The other problem is finding a flat floor to run the car back and forward on.
My garage is flat enough when I remove enough junk.

I would recommend it's use.

Kels.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pogo



Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 51
Location: Limousin. France

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Tracking Reply with quote

Personally, I just remove the tracking tool, turn the relevant wheel to adjust, then run it back over again, to see how its changed. Didnt take long at all to do it like this, Less time than taking to the tyre shop.

Paul
_________________
http://www.centralfrancestorage.com/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
welshrover



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tracrite ive used one for years with no problems, tracking is too expensive these days. the laser trackings ok if its on a modern but on a classic its overkill. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Tracking Reply with quote

pogo wrote:
Personally, I just remove the tracking tool, turn the relevant wheel to adjust, then run it back over again, to see how its changed. Didnt take long at all to do it like this, Less time than taking to the tyre shop.

Paul


Relevent wheel????
No tracking gauge will tell you that one wheel in particular is "out". The thing to do, if steering is by independent outer track rods, is to make sure both are the same length AFTER adjustment of toe-in or out ( years ago Triumph produced a "toe-out" model).
The trackrite gauge and others like it are not a "cheap-jack" way of setting alignment, but in many ways are BETTER than laser gadgets etc. Particularly on older vehicles.
"Compliance" (give) in steering and suspension joints and parts dictates that to give PARALLEL rolling motion the steered wheels generally need to "toe-in" when stationary. But "compliance" changes over the years as parts wear or bushes harden or soften and so does the toe in requirement.
It DOES NOT MATTER what the toe in stationary is - as long as the wheels RUN PARALLEL in motion. The best laser set up in the world cannot guarantee that. The trakrite (and other similar gauges) can!
I have never used anything else on my own cars or the fleet of about 30 vehicles I used to manage.
Wheel alignment tyre wear or steering has never been a problem.
By the way. Don't overlook the fact that many vehicles with independent rear suspension need the rears tracking too. Particularly those like Triumph Heralds where suspension height affects the toe in (and tyre wear) dramatically.
Jim.
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pogo



Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 51
Location: Limousin. France

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Tracking Reply with quote

By the 'relevent wheel' I just meant the one that I am about to adjust, nothing more sinister than that. I turn it so that access to the track rod ends is made easier.
I must admit, I am a little confused by your reply. The reviews I read for the tool said to drive over the gauge straight , and the needle moves to tell you if the wheel which has passed over it is toeing in, out (and by how much) or neutral. So, in fact, the instructions would suggest to me that it is telling me which individual wheels alignment is out.

Now, I may have misunderstood how to use it, but out of the 4 vehicles ive got, they are all running straight, steering wheels centered. I cant say what the tyre wear will be in the long term, but its sounds promising at the moment.

Paul
_________________
http://www.centralfrancestorage.com/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's think again. Considering Gunsons Trakrite or similar (a heavy duty commercial one was available - Pickavant I think).
One wheel is on the floor. That wheel will "steer" the car when it moves. The gauge will be influenced by the other wheel passing over it.
If the wheel on the gauge is not trying to steer in a different direction the gauge will not move and show no deviation. SO THE WHEELS ARE RUNNING IN PARALLEL - as they should in motion! And they will adopt a toe-in when stopped.
If the wheel passing over the gauge IS NOT RUNNING PARALLEL with the wheel on the ground the gauge will move to show toe-in or toe-out.
It DOES NOT MATTER under which wheel the gauge is positioned! Though if under the driver's side wheel the driver can monitor it as he passes over it.
It is best to ensure outer track rods are of EXACTLY equal lengths FIRST and thereafter adjust them equally to get parallel rolling motion. This will ensure equal TOE-OUT ON TURNS, Equally important and desireable.

This type of tracking gauge is even more useful when different or wider wheels or tyres or spacers have been fitted because those alterations will make nonsense of manufacturers figures for a standard set up anyway.

The position of the steering wheel is no indication of correct tracking at all and if the steering wheel is off centre with correct tracking and running straight, either someone has re-fitted it wrongly or some steering part is bent or damaged.

Jim.
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I adjusted my XJ-S, I centralised the rack first. Jaguar have provided a dimple in the rack. There is a special tool, but a small drill will do.

Once the central position is found I locked the wheel in position and ran over the Trakrite, this gave a good first indication. I checked both sides before attempting to adjust.

I used to agonise over aligning the Trakrite with the wheels. Worrying whether the piece of wood I was using in front of the wheels was straight, untill one day on a final test,
I ran a perfectly aligned car over the trakrite when it was out of position. To my amazement it did not move the indicator.

It made sense when I realised the wheels were not running with any side ways force.

Recently on a Jaguar forum some one was complaining that his XJ-S with larger than standard tyres was fouling on one lock.

He would have done well to have read Jim's advice to check the length of the trackrod threads/ arms.

Kels
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kelsham,
There is little point in trying both sides. All other things being equal the results will be identical.

I really do think that the fancy and expensive laser setups are of little value on older vehicles.
As I said before, we used a gauge using the same principle as the Trakrite for years on our fleet with absolute satisfaction. I believe it might have been Pickavant though I have forgotten. It was extremely robust and HEAVY. AND quite expensive!
The Trakrite may need handling with a little more care, but it does the same job and just as well. And it is in the DIY price-band.
I have had a trakrite at home for about twenty years now and it is as good as new. In spite of much use. One of my better DIY investments.
Jim.
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1733
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if newly produced Trakrites are as robust as the ones from 20+ years ago? Look at Haynes manuals - the older editions from jumbles or fleabay have a lot more detail than the recent ones. Is there anything out there that's as good or better than it used to be..?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bitumen Boy wrote:
I wonder if newly produced Trakrites are as robust as the ones from 20+ years ago? Look at Haynes manuals - the older editions from jumbles or fleabay have a lot more detail than the recent ones. Is there anything out there that's as good or better than it used to be..?


Mine would easily break if roughly treated. And the rollers tend to come out if not held level. And it is, after all, only plastic. I only ever use it on a firm and flat (preferably concrete) surface, making sure there is no gravel or grit under it.
Nevertheless with reasonable handling it has lasted and performed well and must have been used many dozens of times on mine and other people's vehicles.
I did initially try to obtain a "garage" unit, but at several times the price I gave up when I realised this plastic version worked just as well.
Jim.
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pogo



Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 51
Location: Limousin. France

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: tracking. Reply with quote

Hi.
I understand what you are saying. I agree, but have found that before any adjustments have been made, I have run both front wheels over the gauge, and both give different readings, often one running on the correct position on the gauge (probably coincidental)
I only used the idea of a correctly aligned steering wheel hinting that the adjustments have been successful, in as much that it is a positive sign.

Long term tyre wear will tell.

Thanks for the information.

Paul
_________________
http://www.centralfrancestorage.com/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure what you are doing Pogo, but as long as you have the pointer away from the car whichever side you use it common sense says the readings will be the same!
The wheel on the floor will guide the car and the wheel passing over the gauge will indicate the difference in angle between the wheels. The ANGULAR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WHEELS WILL STAY THE SAME whether the gauge is on the nearside or offside. The instructions will not tell you to try both sides, so why do it?
If you are getting different readings you are doing something wrong. But I cannot imagine what with such a simple piece of equipment.

Steering wheel alignment has NOTHING to do with tracking and is no guide to anything except perhaps a suggestion that the steering system is damaged (perhaps by kerbing) or it has been removed and replaced wrongly sometime in the past if it is off-centre. But equally it could have been re-aligned to hide a steering problem! It can be placed in any number of positions on the splines.
Jim.
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pogo



Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 51
Location: Limousin. France

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:37 am    Post subject: tracking Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes

Paul
_________________
http://www.centralfrancestorage.com/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim, when I centralised the rack on my XJ-S, I held the steering wheel in the position indicated by the drill bit inserted into the rack.

I supposed that the wheels could be running differently as the wheels were being held in a set position by the rack.

I can't remember what the readings were on both sides of the car, it is a long time ago, but it seemed sensible at the time.

I think we are all agreed that the Trakrite is a simple tool that delivers.

I had a Rover 100 that kept pulling to one side. I applied the Trakrite without improving the driving experience.

I decided to take the car to a four wheel alignment specialist, I told him I had set it up with the Trakrite and he was amused. Almost sneered in my face.

I watched him adjust the tracking, he fiddled about and made a miniscule adjustment to the trackrod ends.

He then admitted he did not think it would make much difference to the pulling problem. Only improvement was to his bank balance.

I took the car home and after further thought realised that one rear swinging arm had worn bearings.

I could just see the lean on the back wheel, I was surprised the four wheel alignment had not identified it.

The trakrite was innocent of blame. Pre war I believe it was not unusual to drive over a sheet of paper and see which way it twisted as the tyres ran over it.

Kels
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Vintage Motoring-Related Toys, Tools & Accessories All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
OCC Merch link
Forum T&C


php BB powered © php BB Grp.