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1926 Dodge Brothers Tourer (split)
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3182
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After careful consideration I decided to repair the crack with Belzona super metal. The crack need to be thoroughly de greased which I did with Loctite solvent spray. I then needed to heat the area to ensure a good cure. Once cured, I sanded/filed down the area to blend in.

The epoxy two part kit cost about 80 so I hope it works. Only time will tell.













Another little problem that has come to light is the condition of these main bearing caps. The "C" engine has 5 main bearings and these are from the two small ones either side of the centre large bearing. In theory I should have the inserts white metalled and machined to size but fortunately I have two spare shells from another crank that has been ground to a similar size. So far, I have been successful in "scraping" in and blueing to fit one of the spare shells and the other one is on my jobs to do list.

Incidentally, these bearing inserts are not quite the same as modern shells in that they have a fairly thick layer of white metal that can be worked (with patience). This is like a step up from the traditional process of white metalling the engine block and caps themselves.

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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3182
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I eventually had the block rebored +0.040 by Cotterell Engineering in Clay Cross and I necessarily purchased 4 new pistons to match. They advised me that they had found a hairline crack down No.1 bore and that it required re lining. Further more, they found a crack across one of the exhaust seats...more about this later. Further work found necessary was to skim the head and block surfaces. All the head studs needed replacing but some of the threads in the block were so poor they needed to be helecoiled.

On collecting the rebored block, I entrusted it to StitchWeld in Burton who repaired the cracked valve seat and machined a new seat into the repair. A very impressive job, I have to say.

While all this was going on I had time to replace the clutch plates. This required a tool to compress the large central spring. This I fashioned from a 6" length of 2" dia. thick walled tubing and with my heavy duty press extracted the spring. There are 4 clutch plates with material on both sides. The plates are driven by 6 stout pins in the flywheel. 4 further pins in the pressure plate transmit thrust through the centre shaft which extends into the gearbox.



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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3182
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once I had the engine mounted on the stand I could rotate it for easier access to the main and big end bearings. I discovered that I could not take up the main bearings to closer than 0.003" without binding. I can only assume that the crank must be slightly bent but seeing as it had been running quite smoothly with 0.005", although dis satisfied, I am not unduly worried. I have attained good bearing surfaces by lapping with a product called "time saver" which is designed for use with white metal bearings and is popular amongst steam engineers.

With the pistons fitted and the bottom end attended to I refitted the camshaft and new valves, guides and springs. A good friend sent me 8 refurbished spring keepers. The valve springs on the Dodge are not held by by collets but have a pin which is located in a hole drilled through the end of the valve. The idea is that the valve is allowed to rotate on it's seat but in practice what happens with time is the pin wears a groove in the seat of the keeper. See lower photo:




The only worry about the rebuild was caused by the crankshaft and camshaft timing gears not having any corresponding markings. Also, given that there were several different camshafts used there was no way of knowing for sure that the valve timing would be right even following the workshop manual.

I should have made clearer markings myself before dismantling but eventually by having No.1 exhaust valve closed with the piston at TDC just beginning the induction stroke I found that the holes in the camshaft timing gear lined up with those in the camshaft flange and it could be attached with confidence. Any other position and the holes wouldn't line up.


Last edited by Ray White on Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6134
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have the angles of valve opening and closing?

Peter
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3182
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter scott wrote:
Do you have the angles of valve opening and closing?

Peter


I dare say there are other Dodge owners in possession of technical data but there is nothing in the manual. The problems are made worse by not knowing if the camshaft, which seems new, is one of the replicas made in Australia with profiles designed to improve exhaust valve life. Or if the camshaft is one of two (at least) different ones produced by the factory in Detroit. Fortunately, I have found the correct (rather faint) timing marks that I put on the crank gear last time I had it apart. These I made to correspond with the line on the flywheel that appears through a hole in the bell housing which you use for ignition timing. The engine revs well and ticks over sweetly so I think all is well.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3182
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



This shows the crankshaft flange to which the flywheel is bolted. I mistakenly thought it would be more convenient to fit the sump with the engine on the stand but, unfortunately, with the sump fitted, there was insufficient room to get the bolts between the flywheel and the sump. I couldn't fit them the other way round either because the nuts fouled... I had to remove the sump and fit it after the flywheel had been bolted on. This of course meant I couldn't use the engine stand so I had to fit the sump from underneath with the engine on the hoist.

I made all new gaskets for the engine ancillaries and so far there are no leaks.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3182
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote





The engine and gearbox are now installed and everything works as it should.

I chose to paint the engine the same shade of light green as all DB cars were at this time. The gearbox etc. is black.

Purists will notice that I have an electric fuel pump. This is because there is a problem with my vacuum tank that I rebuilt a while back and will be refitted when time allows.

I obviously still have some detailing to do but my aim was to resolve the knock which I have done. The cure was to correct the crankshaft end float. This is controlled by the thickness of white metal to the thrust side of the centre main bearing. With the correct 0.005" clearance there is a corresponding reduction in movement at the big end journals. I still have a slight tapping sound but nothing worse than you might get with a generous tappet clearance. (Anyone familiar 3.8 XK engines??) Laughing

There have been one or two teething troubles which I have ironed out so hopefully all will be well for the coming season.

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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20826
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting write-up, thanks Ray, some useful info in there if I ever go down the same or similar route in future.

RJ
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Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 2734
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the tooling you made, its good to see proper work like this.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20826
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only just noticed how different the starter arrangements are on your engine, compared to those on mine. I remember you saying the engine in yours featured a number of updates and improvements. This photo was from a few years ago, but shows the differences.



I've repeated your photo Ray for comparison ...



RJ
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3182
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a pleasure to share my experiences with everyone here. Yes, there are significant differences, Rick. The interesting thing is that Dodge Brothers were pioneers in 12 volt electrics and the combined starter/generator (produced by North East I think) was something of a masterpiece but when they introduced the 5 bearing "C" engine around 1926, they adopted a two unit 6 volt system. It can in retrospect seem like a backward step but at the time it was claimed that the earlier system restricted the hoped for increase in top speed. The 6 volt starter is, however, noisier - operating the starter ring as opposed to being permanently engaged via a chain on the earlier 3 bearing engine.

It may be noted that the carburettors are slightly different with the earlier car having the float chamber on the right.

On my car, the starter and the dynamo have been rebuilt (at some cost!) by experts but one of the faults I have corrected concerned the distributor. When I got the car, there was wear in the drive gear casing which allowed the shaft to wobble. This played havoc with the timing and it was impossible to get a steady dwell angle reading. Fortunately, I have a contact in Australia who sourced a good replacement casting for me. However, despite this, there was still a problem getting a steady tick over but then I had an absolute brainwave!. By fitting a shim under the body of the distributor and raising it up slightly, a perfectly steady tick over was established. Of course, there was a trade off as by altering the height, albeit only slightly, the ignition timing was disturbed but this was easily corrected.

The distributor casting is combined with the water pump which I have also overhauled with a new shaft and bearings (home made) but instead of the traditional packing, I have fitted modern lip seals which has made it water tight. I also have new rubber coupling discs which drive the dynamo.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3182
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the biggest expenses I have had but one which has made the most difference has been getting the radiator shell re plated. I went to Derby Plating who are one of the best in the business and they made a fantastic job of smoothing out the dents and then correctly nickel- as opposed to chromium - plated the steel shell. They made a beautiful job of my Swallow rad shell so I felt confident from the start. Earlier, there had been problems with the radiator itself. My car is fitted with a non original "coolacar" commercial radiator which works well but I did have a problem when the neck came loose and I couldn't remove the cap. It just kept turning but when eventually I got the cap off, I realised that the neck had been fitted from inside the radiator so I had a big problem. Fortunately, I know a radiator expert in Australia who Kindly sent me a replacement "neck". I managed to deform the original one and remove it and soldiered the new one from the outside taking care not to damage the rad solder.. I used a home plating kit to nickel plate the neck.
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The rivets all needed to be removed prior to handing the shell over to Derby Platers. I then need to replicate them so I did this with small polished stainless steel coach bolts. You can't tell the difference.


Last edited by Ray White on Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6134
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful attention to detail Ray.

Looking through your threads on the Dodge and the Swallow it would be great if you could re-add the Swallow photos that Photobucket has deprived us.

Peter
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3182
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter scott wrote:
Beautiful attention to detail Ray.

Looking through your threads on the Dodge and the Swallow it would be great if you could re-add the Swallow photos that Photobucket has deprived us.

Peter


Thanks Peter, will do. Very Happy
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3182
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



The horn required a complete overhaul but is now making a great sound.
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