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Girling drum brakes problem
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3491
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:53 pm    Post subject: Girling drum brakes problem Reply with quote

i have a problem with the Bedford CA brakes, basically some pressure is being retained in the system after the pedal is released, when driving it builds up to the point where the brakes are completely on ! and the only option is to release some pressure through a bleed screw.

so Im suspecting a mater cylinder problem (the MC is new) or a shoes spring problem ? its a Girling system any advice welcome Smile

cheers

Dave
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21021
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the flexi pipes breaking down/collapsing internally perhaps?

RJ
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Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3491
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
Are the flexi pipes breaking down/collapsing internally perhaps?

RJ
nope they are all new

Dave
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21021
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are all wheels binding up, or just one or two?

If it's all of them then it does point to being something fairly central, like the m/c.

RJ
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Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1411
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Rick says. My guess is a faulty valve seal assembly inside the master cylinder or a some foreign matter in there - it only needs to be very small. To be honest I wouldn't fit any new hydraulic cylinder on an oldie without stripping and inspecting it first, the quality can be appalling these days. That's assuming it's affecting all wheels, if just one or two look for bits of crap in the wheel cylinders, and check those flexihoses thoroughly - just because they're new doesn't mean they're good, I've had brand new ones that had a distinctly one way effect. Again, a thorough inspection before fitting is a must these days, I don't think the manufacturers know what quality control means any more Evil or Very Mad
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D4B



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 2091
Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just had a quick search and came across this:

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/5845-411-front-brakes-lock-up-gradually/

perhaps it will help? good luck Cool
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JP



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Location: Norfolk UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's both sides it would suggest master cylinder.

One side only would be the relevant hose acting as a one way valve.

This is assuming a servo has never been fitted because that opens another can of vermiforms entirely Very Happy

Hope you get it sorted OK Wink
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COMMAD



Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 162
Location: Gold Coast. Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Very Happy I had same problem with my CA , when I first put on road. Problem was in Master cylinder, had it reconditioned with all new parts. Problem solved.. The brake guy said it something to do with the return hole in cylinder body not letting fluid return to top of cylinder. My brakes have given no problems for the last 3 years... Very Happy Very Happy
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1238
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before going to a lot of trouble, check that there is some free play on the master cylinder push rod. If its too tight the return valve in the m/c cannot function. A simple thing to miss but vital.
How do I know this??????????
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3491
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks chaps. Smile

I did slacken the control rod yesterday, but didn't cure the problem Sad so I presume it's an internal MC problem. The MC is a new repro jobbie, I can get a new genuine Girling MC for not too much cash so have ordered one. Part of the reason for doing this is that I have come across repro brake parts before and they have different seals ect, that can't be replaced so putting the right part in seems like a better plan Smile

Emmerson it sounds as if you have story ? Smile

Cheers

Dave
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goneps



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 601
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdave2002 wrote:
...I have come across repro brake parts before and they have different seals etc. that can't be replaced...

Ah, the joys of the modern throw-away world. Slave cylinder leaking? Fit a new one, a cheapie that will also be leaking in less than a year. Disc rotors slightly worn? Fit new ones that'll wear out before the pads. Wheel bearing rumbling? Replace the whole hub. because the bearing can't be removed. And so on—the sheer waste is mind-boggling. Hooray for old cars that can actually be repaired.

Richard
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1411
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdave2002 wrote:
The MC is a new repro jobbie, I can get a new genuine Girling MC for not too much cash so have ordered one.
Dave


Dave, let us know how you get on with that genuine master cylinder. It's becoming obvious that I will have to change the clutch MC on my Herald, and there is likewise a choice between genuine and "alternative" - in fact I wouldn't be too surprised if they were the same parts as for your CA. I've resealed the old one a few times but it's not right, a few fiddly bits inside are quite worn. Given that it's probably 50+ years old, and considering how often the clutch gets used I don't suppose it's done too badly Smile
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D4B



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 2091
Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just read in an old Series 1 Landrover club news letter dated from 1991 that someone was suffering with brakes gradually locking on and could only be freed off by slackening the pushrod adjustment..... he later discovered that it was caused by using silicone brake fluid in a system which was not entirely new, so perhaps a side effect of mixing Dot3 or 4 with silicone?

Food for thought....
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3491
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bitumen Boy wrote:
ukdave2002 wrote:
The MC is a new repro jobbie, I can get a new genuine Girling MC for not too much cash so have ordered one.
Dave


Dave, let us know how you get on with that genuine master cylinder. It's becoming obvious that I will have to change the clutch MC on my Herald, and there is likewise a choice between genuine and "alternative" - in fact I wouldn't be too surprised if they were the same parts as for your CA. I've resealed the old one a few times but it's not right, a few fiddly bits inside are quite worn. Given that it's probably 50+ years old, and considering how often the clutch gets used I don't suppose it's done too badly Smile
well I actually got round to changing the MC this weekend, and happily using an original Girling part has cured the problem Smile

Dave
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