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1936 Morris 8, 6v starter spinning but bendix not engaging
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zagatoman



Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Posts: 55
Location: Sutton, Surrey

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:02 pm    Post subject: 1936 Morris 8, 6v starter spinning but bendix not engaging Reply with quote

Hi all, had an intermittent problem for the last few months that has been getting worse and now has completely failed.

I have a 1936 Morris 8 with 6v electrics, and for the last few months occasionally the starter spins without throwing out the bendix and not engaging the engine but sometimes is fine. Today I took the starter off and placed on the bench and connected 6v power and found the starter spins but not fast enough for the bendix to throw out. The bendix is clean and is free to move up and down the spiral shaft with minimal effort when moved by hand.

The question is to you very knowledgeable people is could it be something simple and I could sort out or something more serious for a professional?.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks, Paul


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Keith D



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 1127
Location: Upper Swan, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two cars with 6v electrics and when I experience starters that will not go fast enough to engage the Bendix, my first check is the battery. Is it fully charged? It can also be a loose connection on the supply cables, or even a bad contact in the switch. But I would check the battery first.

BTW, I love the car!

Keith
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goneps



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 601
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First step is to follow Keith's advice and make sure the starter is getting plenty of juice. Since you state that the Bendix is clean and free, we can eliminate the possibility of leaking engine oil gumming up the works, which is a fairly common cause of non-engagement.

Does the armature spin freely when twirled by hand? I had what I thought was a tired starter, but in fact the pressed steel rear cover plate that holds the brushes and shaft bush had been distorted by some ham-fisted previous owner, so that the bush axis was not perpendicular to the plane of the plate. Consequently, when the long bolts were tightened the bush was binding on the shaft. The starter had enough trouble trying to turn itself, let alone a cold engine. This also placed undue strain on the battery.

The above only applies if your starter is the early type with the cable-operated switch mounted on top. Later models have the switch mounted on the end plate, which is a zinc or aluminium casting. In this case the brush connections are riveted, and corrosion can occur within the riveted joints. The only cure is to drill out the rivets so that the assembly can be thoroughly cleaned.

Richard
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bjacko



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 352
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:05 am    Post subject: Slow Starter Reply with quote

Make sure the earth connections are not rusted. Easy way to check is use a jumper lead direct from the earth on the battery to the starter body. If it spins quicker you have a bad earth.
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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2680
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re "connected 6v power"

Was that the car battery power ? or from a battery charger or similar.
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bjacko



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 352
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:57 am    Post subject: Slow Starter Reply with quote

From the car battery.
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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2680
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if a fully charged battery and a bench test has the same result then something in the starter could be the problem, or a faulty battery, that prevents it from providing the current required.
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zagatoman



Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Posts: 55
Location: Sutton, Surrey

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, thanks for everyone's advice, very helpful. Yes, the battery is a new 404 and fully charged. All the wires are strong and rust free so the problem must be inside.

I have now taken it over to a specialist in Brixton, Robson & Francis Rewinds Ltd, what a fantastic place. He will test it out and report back with the problems, lets hope not expensive ones.

I have included a couple of photos of the offending Lucas M35G starter.

Paul



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goneps



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 601
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the oddest M35 starter I've seen. What is the object that looks like an offset pulley between the switch and green-painted body? Never see the like before.

Richard
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zagatoman



Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Posts: 55
Location: Sutton, Surrey

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Richard, The grey block you pointed out holds the large separated copper contacts that the cylindrical switch when operated pushes down onto with with a circular copper plunger to make the circuit and spin the starter.

Hope that helps, Paul


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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2680
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could very well be lack of conductivity on the switch contacts, due either to a weakness in the mechanics that push the contact together, or age related degradation caused by the unavoidable arcing that occurs.
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goneps



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 601
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed—I believe his type of starter switch may be more susceptible than the earlier top-mounted type. Or, as mentioned earlier, corrosion within the riveted brush connections.

Richard
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bjacko



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 352
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:04 am    Post subject: Morris 8 Starter Reply with quote

This model starter and starter switch were fitted to the late Ser II and early (pre-war) Ser E cars.
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zagatoman



Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Posts: 55
Location: Sutton, Surrey

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, my starter motor now all sorted thanks to Robson & Francis Rewinds of Brixton South London, fantastic job. This place is proper old school and very professional friendly and knew everything about anything, they also do a collection and delivery service.

www.robsonandfrancisrewinds.co.uk
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goneps



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what was the problem, according to the experts? It would be useful to know.

Richard
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