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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1382 Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:04 pm Post subject: Modern cars - built in obsolescence? |
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If we believe the boasts that modern cars are better built, more efficient and more reliable than at any time in the past then here is a sobering example that this may not be true.
Five years ago (2012) a young man here in the village bought himself a 2008 Ford Transit Connect van from a local Ford main dealer. Low mileage (40k), service history and in very good, lightly used condition.
One morning last week it was reluctant to start - the first problem he had had with it. It did start eventually and he went on his normal journey to work.
Five miles into the journey the immobiliser light came on, the engine cut out and he came to a stop.
The engine would not restart and he thought it must be a starter issue. The Transit Connect was recovered to the local repair garage.
He received a telephone call later that day asking him to call at the premises. He was told that his van was beyond economic repair because the immobiliser module had failed and the cost of just the replacement was around £1600 without the additional time costs of removing the old unit, fitting and reprogramming the new module.
Shocked, he went home and phoned the Ford garage he had bought it from and the service manager confirmed what he had been told was correct but that the fitting charges could be as high as £500 +.
The vehicle now has 85k miles on it's odometer and is still in outwardly good condition having been well looked after - serviced and rustproofed.
He did have the option of buying an used immobiliser module providing it came from a same year model but all such parts are normally sold without warranty and "as seen" or any warranty is restricted to value only of the part and not to cover any labour charges.
He cut his losses and his van is now at a breaker's yard. _________________ Starting Handle Expert
1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet |
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D4B
Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 2083 Location: Hampshire UK
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Utter madness |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22438 Location: UK
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D4B
Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 2083 Location: Hampshire UK
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if this fault could have been cured by resoldering a dry joint on a PCB? |
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Peter_L
Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 2680 Location: New Brunswick. Canada.
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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A quick search came up with this company, of whom I have no knowledge.
However, back in the 90's my Senator ECU was reporting a cam sensor fault even after a new sensor was fitted I took the ECU to a company in Droitwich. who tested it for £30. Did something really techie for another $40 and when I plugged it back in all was well. Even back then garages were quoting £800 + which did not include whatever that sucking air through the teeth and head shaking could cost.
I believe that the electronic bits are really a scourge of the motorcar, but running parallel with this is a growing number of equally clever folk who can fix them.
https://www.autotronics.co.uk/ford-airbag-module-crash-data-reset-removal-service.html |
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Kleftiwallah
Joined: 27 Oct 2016 Posts: 222 Location: North Wiltshire
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I'm even dubious about 'leccy windows!
Cheers, Tony |
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D4B
Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 2083 Location: Hampshire UK
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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well researched Peter, it says Immobilser box can be sent in, recoded and returned for £144. |
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Peter_L
Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 2680 Location: New Brunswick. Canada.
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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D4B wrote: | well researched Peter, it says Immobilser box can be sent in, recoded and returned for £144. |
That sounds a good price.
All readers please note. I have not used this company or have any knowledge of their service. However, if I was in the UK, .I would give them a try |
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Bitumen Boy
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 1735 Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think we should have a law that forces the vehicle manufacturer to replace these sorts of electronic boxes gratis, indefinitely. After all it's all solid state, no moving parts - it shouldn't ever wear out. It's either as Ellis says, built in obsolescence or it's just shoddy junk. Either way it's not acceptable IMO. |
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1382 Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for that site Peter.
I've bookmarked it for future reference. _________________ Starting Handle Expert
1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4104 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Bitumen Boy wrote: | I think we should have a law that forces the vehicle manufacturer to replace these sorts of electronic boxes gratis, indefinitely. After all it's all solid state, no moving parts - it shouldn't ever wear out. It's either as Ellis says, built in obsolescence or it's just shoddy junk. Either way it's not acceptable IMO. |
Lets get some perspective here electronics are a major reason that things like engine rebuilds are not required for 200-300k miles. And I for one love my modern gadgets! electronics has got both cheaper and more reliable in recent years.
I belive that the reason the cost of repairing electronics in vehicles is high, is mainly due to the fact that they don't often go wrong these days (hence the long manufacturer warranties) so like anything in small demand, it generates a niece price.
My dad was an an electronics engineer who started his career in the 1940's ; there is nothing new about fixing electronics, but it is a very different skill to say rebuilding a gearbox.
All that said, I don't belive the vehicle manufacturers do themselves any favours with out of warranty parts or repairs; a few years ago the Factory fitted Karmon amplifier in by BMW failed, (just out of warranty) I'd paid an extra £750 for the sound system, took the car to the local BMW dealer, who said it was a common fault but easy to fix, they would just replace the amplifier which was a 10 min job and charge me £1600 + vat hang on the entire sound system was only £750, OK it was an upgrade, but the thick end of £2k just for the amplifier!?
So I took the car home, took the amp out and opened it up, I could visibly see a faulty coupling capacitor within about 20 seconds...a trip down to Maplin relived me of 27p for a pack of 2 capacitors ( I really only wanted 1 )home and 20 mins later the amp was repaired and refitted!!
BMW didn't even offer an exchange service; it was a new unit. How often have folk just paid out for repairs such as this ?
Dave |
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Dipster
Joined: 06 Jan 2015 Posts: 408 Location: UK, France and Portugal - unless I am travelling....
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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And some people wonder why I still run my (bought new) 1998 Defender...........
I describe it as a JCB with seats but without all the hydraulics! Flash it is not. Reliable and cheap to run (with loads of room) it certainly is. |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7117 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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My 13 year old Mondeo has just reached 87k miles and my 1939 SS Jaguar is just about to turn 70k miles. The engine in the Mondeo is as good as when it left the factory and the engine in the SS has been reconditioned at least twice in my ownership.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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MrWhite
Joined: 09 May 2017 Posts: 105
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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All car maufacturers have cetain parts they control and keep the prices high because they make more money from them when they go wrong. Sometimes it is electronics, sometimes mundane parts like drivetrain copmponents which are "Dealer only" and extortionate prices. With the internet now and more information readily avalable you can buy things from Europe, for example and by-pass the Dealer network. You can't afford to be in any kind of hurry for the parts though as they may take a while to get here. I have managed it a few times, sometimes I have not been sucessful though. There are also companies who normally work for "The Trade" who will repair ECUs and the like, I have also used them with varying degrees of success. I think if I had been the Transit Connect owner I would have gone into bloody minded mode and refused to scrap it. I woud probably of bought another van and kept it until I could find a way to fix it, maybe that's just me though
IMHO Ford probably wrote the rule book for this kind of thing (along with in-built water ingress and terminal rust), the number of cars I have had over te years which were great in teh beginning and then turned out to be a dis-appointment in one way or another, is ridiculous. I now refuse to be dis-appointed any more by Fords and just don't buy them, which incidentally makes the inflated price of classic Fords all the more unbelieivable! |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7117 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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ukdave2002 wrote: |
So I took the car home, took the amp out and opened it up, I could visibly see a faulty coupling capacitor within about 20 seconds...a trip down to Maplin relived me of 27p for a pack of 2 capacitors ( I really only wanted 1 )home and 20 mins later the amp was repaired and refitted!!
Dave |
Just so. Times have changed and we can't expect every car fault to be repaired using a spanner. OK, vehicle manufacturers are not always very good at releasing the schematics for electronic components but let us just accept that electronics has greatly improved motor vehicles and if we can't fix them with a soldering iron (or heat gun) then tough.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
Last edited by peter scott on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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