Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Ellis]

It's been the headlines today in the newspapers and on tv, radio and social media and I have had a look around other forums this evening to gauge reactions.

I posted a topic on electric cars some time ago and the reaction on here towards them was generally negative. This has been reflected tonight on nearly all the motoring based forums but the environmental ones vary between agreement or "too little too late".

Technology in the internal combustion engine and it's efficiency has advanced by a huge extent in the last, say, 25 years but battery technology has not to the same degree.
A friend who hobbies in drones and working model aircraft showed me what happens regularly to the batteries in these. They overheat, expand and if your drone or whatever ends up in water, the batteries explode, spectacularly.

As Penman pointed out in the first thread, he has no facilities to recharge an electric car's battery and the location of his house makes it impossible. Many are in the same position.

I now think that universally electrically powered cars of the future is nonsense and I liked the question someone asked tonight on one forum :

What powers the propulsion system of the Rainbow Warrior?
Wood chips, solar energy, hot air or old fashioned marine diesel?

Your opinions please.
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Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

[Penman]

Hi
Followig my earlier post I looked at some figures and did some "back of an envelope" calculations for an article.

[peter scott]

It strikes me that opting to develop a network of electric charging points is the wrong way to go. Although hydrogen fuel cell cars are currently expensive their fueling is almost as rapid as petrol or diesel and they can match the performance of current cars and give range in excess of 300 miles.

Forget electric and install hydrogen service stations like are in California.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/honda-clarity-and-toyota-mirai-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-compared-comparison-test

Peter
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Penguin45]

Kill all the cattle. Problem solved.

P45.
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'67 Wolseley MkI 18/85, '70 Austin MkII 1800 The Landcrab Forum.

[Keith D]

In 2040 I will be 97 years old (In the unlikely event that I'm still alive), so obviously the problem will belong to my kids and the younger generations.

However, on our news last night we had the bold assertiion that Volvo will stop making petrol engined cars in the next few years. Assuming Volvo will still be building any cars by then, they will be so busy trying to survive against China that they will build anything that will keep them afloat.

You folk have problems regarding places to recharge electric vehicles. We have a much bigger problem. It's called distance. I live in the very outer suburbs of Perth, the only large city in a state of about a million square miles. I regulrly visit friends and relatives whio live four or five hundred kilometers away. (250 -300 miles) Has battery technology come this far yet? No way! Petrol (or maybe hydrogen, LPG or diesel vehicles will be with us in Oz for a very long time yet!

Incidently, just as a footnote regarding the media. Just a few years ago diesel was being promoted as the wonder fuel even though its cancer causing ingredients have beem well know for donkey's years.

IMHO this whole furore is just another case of sensationalism created by the media.

Keith
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1926 Chrysler 60 tourer
1932 Austin Seven RN long wheelbase box sedan
1950 Austin A40 tourer
1999 BMW Z3
Its weird being the same age as old people.
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution

[Riley Blue]

2040 is not the end of petrol and diesel cars. It is the year proposed by the UK government for the end of the sale of new petrol and diesel cars.
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David

1963 Riley 1.5
1965 Riley 1.5

[Keith D]

According to the news in Oz, the last of the petrol and diesel cars will be sold in the UK in 2040 but they will all be banned off the road by 2050.

Keith
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1926 Chrysler 60 tourer
1932 Austin Seven RN long wheelbase box sedan
1950 Austin A40 tourer
1999 BMW Z3
Its weird being the same age as old people.
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution

[Riley Blue]

[ka]

I have just ordered a 2017 Fiesta, with the 3cylinder 140bhp engine, as the press states, 'more power per cc than a Veyron'. Petrol engine technology looks as though it is catching up with all the development put into diesel engines over the past few years, engine of the year 2012/13/14/15/16. It has a built in cylinder shut off when all three are not required. I also read that the UK Government is to invest in battery technology and that BMW Mini is to invest in the British plant to produce all electric Minis (at least medium term anyway, lets see what Brexit does to the long term decision).
We also have a thriving electric car agent up here, who drove Lands End to JOG in an all electric car, you have to read deeper to find the charging intervals, but until I can buy an electric car that has a useable travel distance, using the heater, wipers and lamps then it is petrol for me!
I just see on the news, that our Government is to introduce the changes 10 years earlier than the rest of the UK!
Best enjoy my Morgan, Motorcycle and new car whilst I can.
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KA

Better three than four.

[alastairq]

20 or 30 years ago, we were warned that oil was a very finite resource, and the world would almost run out of it by the middle of the next [this] century.

Now, the triggering issue is public health [in the bigger towns & cities.....so why not live elsewhere? Oh yes, the price one pays for not having neighbours either side, front or back under or over?]

This is, in fact, an old-hat issue.

45 years ago, I drove buses for London Transport. [Proper buses, with conductors, and no power steering, unlike the wimp-breeders that pass for buses these days?}....back then, there was a major campaign to get people out of cars, and on to public transport...[in London]

Pollution of the atmosphere was an issue back then too.

But the public lacked the will to actually do something about it.

We got rid of electric trolleybuses [and trams] because Joe Public wanted 'better'...[and cheaper]

In any event, the use of electricity to power our personal transport has 20 years-odd to work on technologies....

20 years ago, the concept of a 3 cylinder, 140 bhp small engine was almost [but not quite] unheard-of...or believed...[Perhaps we should all have taken more notice of the first Daihatsu Charades???? ]....FIAT have had the Twin-Air technologies for some time now.

For NEW cars, who knows what technologies will be available to us in 20 years time?

If we are at all concerned over our driving futures, it is as well to look deeper at what is being developed now.....given the 'lead' times for developement?

Around 15 years ago [dates not exactly my forte these days].....I read an interview with the head honcho at Porsche [a Dr Porsche, IIRC?}

Porsche, amongst other things, did development work for other major manufacturers.

At the time Porsche were working on new generation diesel engines [which we benefit from, today].

Dr. Porsche stated quite clearly, that [back then!]....development of the diesel engine had already reached its climax.

What Porsche had developed [back then] was to be the ultimate diesel engine development....which we now see [or, have seen?] today.

But, back then Dr Porsche was convinced the 'future' [ie, now?]...lay with small, high power petrol engines...rather than diesels.

I posted [on various forums of the time]....what I had read & understood from the Porsche interview.

There was an enormous amount of pooh-pooing....everyone who thought they were anyone, was convinced diesel was the future, the way forwards....and Dr Porsche hadn't a clue what he was talking about!!

Well, he really did know a thing or two, did Dr Porsche......

So, in forming opinons about what may lie ahead in 20 years' time, we should avoid basing those opinons on what we think we know now.

In the meantime, I will proceed with getting my ancient Daihatsu Fourtrak [daily driver] back on the road...with it's old-technology, proper diesel engine....which will run on anything at all which may possibly be able to go 'bang'.[which is more than today's modern military trucks can do]....a proper pensioner's special, it is.....spares are cheap, fuel is anybody's guess, nice high seat to get in & out of, nice solid steelwork should my driving standards start to fall off with age....ha ha ha [given my ex-working background!]...and 35 miles to the gallon...paintwork & colour is really, what I can find in the garden shed! Which helps keep shoppers away from my doors in Tescos....and when the eventual fossil fuel ban comes into place, my kids know where the shovel is to bury me!

[badhuis]

[MikeEdwards]

[colwyn500]

It is inevitable that the production of the high-tech batteries needed to power electric cars will carry with it some environmental implications of its own; relatively scarce and potentially very toxic materials are used.

In our new house we were not permitted to use a conventional electric-powered boiler because this form of power source is seen as being an inefficient, second-hand way of using power. Energy losses are incurred in the transmission of electricity and in the extraction of power from fossil-fuels.

If enacted, this legislation will give greater credibility to the supporters of nuclear-power; we are all aware of the great debates regarding cost-benefit and potential dangers that subject carries with it.

Politicians and the people entrusted with the future planning of our world never seem to look at the broad picture in order to incorporate all the complexities that will follow their decisions.

[Rootes75]

Not sure what I think on this one yet, its inevitable something needs to change but many of the options don't yet seem viable to me.

I am sure many manufacturers are well in advance of new designs and technology but I wonder if our politicians are that well informed?
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Various Rootes Vehicles.

[PAUL BEAUMONT]

Along with several of you I fancy this is a headline grabbing initiative aimed primarily at getting the government out of the anti pollution legislation. It seems to me to be poorly thought out as by 2040 the infrastructure will not exist to support 100% electric vehicles - we would need to be building the power stations now!
But to me this seems to be attempting to solve a symptom rather than the problem. The problem is pollution in areas where traffic density is heavy, but does it need to be? In this internet age, why do companies need to occupy areas of expensive real estate in town and city centres? Why not force companies with a significant traffic demand to move out? Many of our non- motorway routes still have to pass through town centres, handicapped by traffic lights, pedestrianized areas, cycle routes etc. We should accept that there is a need for through traffic and bypass the obstructions. For folk who must travel into city centres why not ban traffic all together in favour of compulsory park and ride solutions with electric tram connections. Goods deliveries could be handled in a similar way. Maybe if that proved too expensive the customers would migrate to out of town locations too. Lets bring back railway sidings etc!
I fancy that the brains behind these idea are all London based, have no idea that there is a world beyond Watford and rejoice in an excellent tube system! and the wonderful Cross-rail project coming on!