classic car forum header
Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
How To Register     Posting Photographs     Privacy Policy     F/book facebook.com/oldclassiccar

Riley 12/4 1935
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> All Other Cars & Vehicles.
Author Message
Whitegoatie



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Stamford, Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Riley 12/4 1935 Reply with quote

If I can work out how to post images I will show you what I have been up to...

So, spent hours uploading images to Google Photo and it looks like I wasted my time, it wont give you a URL you can share to the forum.

Flickr... so it would seem the App is no good on an iPhone, but it works well from a desktop, we will see... Tapatalk is so easy by comparison...

[img]IMG_7407 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

Success! Thank you for the tip Peter.


Last edited by Whitegoatie on Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:04 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6137
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use Postimage. Then you can either upload your photo directly from your files or you can upload the image link that Google photos give you.

Postimage gives you various link choices. that you can use to post on the forum.

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 litre saloon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whitegoatie



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Stamford, Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In January 2016 I inherited a Riley. Dad had always loved his Rileys, family and a career in the Forces meant he never really had time to devote to his passion until he retired. A good pension and wise investments saw him able to take early retirement and complete the restoration he had started on a pre-war Kestrel, this vehicle won him a runners up prize in Practical Classics, for (I think) 'Amateur Restoration of the year', back in the 90's. This car served him well and practically every weekend of the summer he was at car show, right up until ill-health stopped him.

He was not the sort to spend his time polishing and preening, he loved getting his hands dirty, so it was not long before he got his teeth into another Riley, this time he built a special, a Riley Brooklands replica. This was a lovely little car and really looked the part, with one major draw back, Mum hated it and would not even sit in it, let alone drive to a show, so it went to make way for the next project, a 12/4 Kestrel.

The new Kestrel left the factory in 1935 with a Fastback saloon body on a 22T chassis, other models available that year on the 22T chassis were the Falcoln, which was a more 'boxy' saloon, and the Lynx, a four door Tourer. Not much remained of the original Kestrel bodywork, these cars were Ash framed with an aluminium skin, so the decision was taken to build a Lynx replica body. Dad seemed to have this car a long time, he rebuilt the chassis, had the body built and fitted it. Life got in the way, they moved to a bungalow and built a new workshop to house the cars and machinery, then just as they settled into the new home, he became ill with cancer and passed away in December 2015.

Dads car driven by a friend, leading the cortege at his funeral, which was attended by many cars from the 20-49 car club.

[img]IMG_7361 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

I had mixed thoughts about the car, pre-war was not really my thing, I preferred cars from the 60's, at one time I had 5 VW Beetles which kept me busy, but until the Riley came along I had not owned a classic for many years. I decided to get the car running, reassemble it from the parts that were spread around the workshop, and then once I had had a drive, either keep it, or sell it and buy a Beetle or Daimler V8. Mums health was not great, and I could see she would not be able to manage at home for much longer, the car would at some point have to be moved and my garage was not big enough for this sort of project.

This was the car in January 2016, sound, but with bodywork to finish, engine a complete unknown, and a shed full of 12/4 and Riley 9 parts.

[img]IMG_7348 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_7452 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_7448 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_7447 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_7445 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_7439 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

More anon...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whitegoatie



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Stamford, Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First signs of life.

[img]IMG_7457 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

A new set of leads and ignition timing sorted.

[img]Riley by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]Untitled by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]Untitled by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

There are no timing marks on the Riley, so had to find TDC No1 the old fashioned way...
[img]Untitled by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

New leads, distributor cap, points, condenser, rotor (pictures dont show it but I fitted a Red rotor from Dr Distributor), filled the float chambers and after a bit of fiddling she coughed into life. No exhaust or coolant at this stage, but I was happy enough she was a runner.[/img]

https://youtu.be/4KTeiGg_f64
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6137
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good photos and a satisfying moment capture in the video.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 litre saloon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whitegoatie



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Stamford, Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

She runs, what next? Moving from January into February 2016, I started tackling the wiring, thinking if I am going to test drive soon, it would be good to have it starting on the key, also the steering wheel needed fitting, which meant it would be sensible to fit the stator tubes and associated switches and controls.

I wanted the car running, usable and as the clock was ticking on workspace availability there was no time for originality, the wiring is not repro, nor is it 2017, its a happy mix of connectors and wire that does a job.

[img]IMG_7504 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[/img]IMG_7505 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[img]

Mounting the instrument panel meant fitting the wooden dash board which Dad had made and varnished in readiness for the rebuild.

[img]IMG_7507 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

The control box took a lot of sorting out, I found in the garage several wiring diagrams, the one I initially thought was correct for the my car, was not. Eventually I stumbled on the correct diagram and managed to make sense of the connections. Later in the build I had a massive problem with this control box, self inflicted, more later.

[img]IMG_7509 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

Amazingly I managed to get my Daughter to assist, although she didnt stick at it long, too boring...

[img]IMG_7592 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

The stator tubes were a complete joy, not.

[img]IMG_7498 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_7659 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

For those that don't know, I certainly didn't until starting this project, the stator tubes are thin walled tubing of different diameters, that run down the centre of the steering shaft. There are three tubes on my car and they sit inside each other, sleeved. At the steering wheel end there are some levers and switches, as shown above. The horn and indicators are electric switches and the wiring for these runs down the inner most tube. The lights are switched mechanically, a lever is soldered to the centre tube, and connects to a rotary switch mounted on the steering box. The inner tube is connected to the advance and retard lever, and also connect to an arm at the steering box. The outer of the three tubes is clamped to the steering box, so the hub with the switches does not move when you turn the steering wheel. I found several stator tubes amongst the spare, problem was none were long enough, they did not protrude from the end of the steering shaft, so the would never engage with the light switch or column clamp, which was a bit of a bummer. This is where Ebay can be your friend, amazingly someone was advertising a Bakelite hub, so I contacted the seller, and sure enough they had the stator tube as well, it was local to me and even more amazingly it was the required length! The tubes turned nicely within each other, but, the wires for the switches had been cut off flush at each end of the tube. To make things worse, the wire insulation had melted itself to the inside of the tube. What a job getting that out was, heated it, drilled it, scraped it, ended up grinding slots in the tube to extract the remains. Getting the new wires in was equally joyful. A job that should have taken hours took weeks. But we got there in the end!

[img]IMG_7615 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

IMG_7613 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr

[img]IMG_7663 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_7664 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_7665 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

And as you can see, it works!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN1x61Evs3Q
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20851
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting to read about your project, and glad that you got the photo thing sorted out.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whitegoatie



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Stamford, Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
Very interesting to read about your project, and glad that you got the photo thing sorted out.

RJ


Thanks. Off work for a bit so thought I would post the story on here. Photobucket need shooting, all the images lost to forums, there are some great threads on here, ruined with the loss of the images.

Still think you should look into Tapatalk, makes it so much easier to drop in, keep up and post images straight from your phone... (I dont work for them, just find it useful) Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6137
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The nice thing about Postimage is that it was possible to download all the photos I had on Photobucket into Postimage in one go and they retain their original photo titles so it wasn't too difficult to update the threads in this forum that I had posted photos to. Just a little tedious.

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 litre saloon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whitegoatie



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Stamford, Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I can almost feel the wind in my hair and smell the open road!

We are moving into March, time to give the motor a good run, get it warm and fettle the carbs, time for some coolant. I bought some black silicon hose which got the radiator connected, thermo syphon so no water pump, or heater hoses to worry about. I started to fill the radiator, looking for leaks I notice water pouring down each side of the block. I had previously taken the inlet manifold off and noticed a port from the head to manifold, initially I hoped for a problem with the gasket, but it wasn't to be.

Riley's have a heating system for the inlet manifold to prevent the carbs icing up. On Riley 9's, a pair of pipes run from the exhaust manifold, around the back of the engine, and through the inlet manifold, exhaust gases pass through the pipes, warming the inlet, then returning back to the exhaust. On the 12/4, two 'hot spot' pipes pass straight through the engine block, through the water jacket, connecting inlet and exhaust manifolds.

On a lot of cars this function has been bypassed, pipes corrode, are difficult to replace, and it is arguable how effective the system is. Mine were not connected to either manifold, but the water tight tubes that the gasses pass through were still there, but had rusted out and were leaking.

[img]IMG_7743 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

What to do about that? Google was not very helpful, I could see the tubes were held secure by what looked like C nuts. My first thought was a length of threaded bar, flat washers, rubber washers and a liberal coating of silicon sealer. I resisted the temptation to bodge, and set about removing the tubes, cold chisel on the nuts, using extreme care not to damage the block, blow torch, big hammer and a drift. I had to get quite brutal to shift them.

Nearly off...

[img]IMG_7744 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[url]IMG_7745 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/url]

[img]IMG_7747 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

Its moving...
[img]IMG_7748 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

Look at the state of that...

[url]IMG_7749 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/url]

Now the lower hotspot tube.

[img]IMG_7750 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img][/img]

It was quite satisfying when they started moving. Withe the tubes out of the way, eighty plus years of gunge, sh1t, and corrosion was free to exit the engine. OMG!, I had never seen anything like it, Delhi Belly has nothing on this...

[img]IMG_7752 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

Pushed the car out of the garage and jet washed it through as best I could, then cleaned up the holes ready for some core plugs.

[url]IMG_7753 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img][/img]

Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whitegoatie



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Stamford, Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The engine is running and appears to be water tight, so I spend time fitting body panels, the lights and wiring them up. Finding the correct bolts and brackets in the mass of parts on Dads shelves took some doing. I would spend ages rummaging for something, give up, thinking there isn't one and start looking for something else, and all of a sudden there is the bit I was looking for in the first place, right under my nose. That happens at home as well, but usually because the Wife has 'put it away'.

Typical rummage zones...

[img]IMG_7979 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_7980 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

Which when you are not 100% what you are looking for looks like, was fun!

Head lamps were a particular struggle to fit as they have special bolts that go through a stanchion, with wires passing through the bolt.


[img]IMG_7860 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

We are starting to look like a car at last.

[img]IMG_8404 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_8405 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

I checked the coolant every time I visited the workshop and level never changed, until one day a few weeks after the hotspot work. the header tank was empty, a bit of investigation showed a sump full of water, not good news

There are many reasons why the water could have found its way to the sump, head gasket, water passing the lag tappets, cracked block or head?

I didn't have a lot of choice other than to pull the head off and investigate.

Not much to see, had the head skimmed, it had been skimmed before, not very well, but Mal got it true and I put it back together.

[img]IMG_8070 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_8086 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_8089 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_8090 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

And managed to snap a thermostat housing stud...
Sad

[img]IMG_8092 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

Luckily there was enough stud proud of the head to weld on a nut and wind it out while still hot, phew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whitegoatie



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Stamford, Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

July, the house is on the market, time is running out. Engines back together, built an exhaust, body panels lined up reasonably, seats in, door catches and latches fitted, and she has moved under her own steam for the first time in 20 - 30 years. Time for paint.

Basking in the sunshine, saying get the Autosol out and polish me. Not likely.

[img]IMG_8436 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_8435 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_8434 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

I have prepped and sprayed cars before, but after reading some stories on this forum, decided to brush paint. Time, cost, not to mention masking off the car and the garage, the fact the car is 80 + years old and I am not building a show car, prompted a visit to Craftmaster Paints, I bought quality brushes, undercoat, a thinner, tack clothes, cleaning solvent, and spent well under 200.00.

I knew the ally body needed to be etch primed, this was only available from most places in aerosols, after a bit of searching I managed to buy a 1L can.

Once the body was rubbed down and a few dents and bumps filled and sorted, I removed the doors, bonnet sides and running boards, tack clothed and cleaned the body with the solvent (its got name, cant think of it). Then using some cheap disposable rollers from Ebay, etched the body.

[img]IMG_8456 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

These rollers were pants, it might have been the etch, but more than a few rolls and the foam swelled and they spun on the plastic tube that attached them to the handle. Still I had plenty and they were cheap, so I got through loads.

[img]IMG_8457 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

Then once the etch had gone off, I flatted it down and undercoated it all.

[img]IMG_8458 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_8459 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

I think I gave it 2 coats of undercoat, applying it with better quality rollers and laying off with a brush, followed by 2 top coats, again, rollered on, laid off by brush. There were 2 cans of undercoat and 2 cans of topcoat, but I only used 1 of each. I have no idea what colour my Dad intended for the car, I suspect Blue to match the wheels he had had powder coated. Blue was not for me, I fancied Black but thought it too harsh, so settled on a Light Grey. I am not 100% about the colour and this might change.

[img]IMG_8682 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_8684 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

[img]IMG_8686 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img]

We are cruising, its going great, then of disaster strikes again...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1263
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really enjoying this photo essay...well done!
Nice colours too...and what looks like, a good finish.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6137
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw reference to your disaster else where and will be interested to see how you solved it.

As an aside, do you still have your father's green Kestrel?

Peter


_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 litre saloon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 2746
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can vouch for Craftmaster paints, lovely to work with and the finish is very good.
_________________
1937 Ford 7w
1937 Hillman 80
1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> All Other Cars & Vehicles. All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum T&C


php BB powered © php BB Grp.