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What did you do to your car today?
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3151
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally got our Commer Q2 running, without choke and to not cut out when she's given some throttle!
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1937 Ford 7w
1937 Hillman 80
1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1541
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yaaay! Smile
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6579
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rootes, What was the problem?

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 litre saloon
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3151
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter scott wrote:
Hi Rootes, What was the problem?

Peter


In the end Peter it was a number of things and we sort of went back to basics.

Firstly, we tried to start her again but she simply would not fire and then would flood with lots of fuel coming out the overflow pipe. We also then noticed a small leak on the carb. So, we swapped the carb for a rebuilt spare that we have and we also removed an inspection brass bolt on the manifold to find that was wet inside. We tgen tried again and this time she did fire but would only run with choke and would pop and bang, she was missing aswel. We took the opportunity with her running to dribble some oil around the manifold to check for leaks, there were none.

So, next step we re-checked the timing, it was correct. We re-checked the contact gap and spark, this was correct. But, upon checking the spark on the plugs, number one was weak, number two non spark and it went like that for the others. So, we checked each HT lead and found some not good connections at all, these were all replaced. We tried the engine again and although better sounding she was still missing and popping back. With her running, one by one we removed a plug lead, we found that removing the HT from plugs 2, 5 and 6 made no difference to the engine running. These are 6 new Champion Plugs, we found 3 NGK plugs so cleaned and reset the gaps and fitted these.

Next push on the starter and you would not believe the difference. Smooth start with no choke, engine running like a clock with some minor adjustment to the air mixture on the carb and best of all, give her some throttle and she doesnt cut out or backfire, just a lovely throaty sounding 6 cylinder petrol engine. I took some video which I will upload.

It just goes to show, get the basics right. Small simple problems can really get you scratching your head and set you back.
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1937 Ford 7w
1937 Hillman 80
1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4215
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To get the odd duff Champion plug is unlucky. To have three of them perhaps points to a counterfeit batch.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6579
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My goodness! I've always used Champion plugs and found them to be "fit & forget" but clearly the times they are a changing.

Peter Shocked
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1541
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience with modern Champion plugs is similar to Rootes....
I've found NGK to be by far the best of the whole bunch [including US Autolites].

Champions [modern ones] I found to have little tolerance for oil or flooding.
Bosche plugs I have found to be the worst of the lot, for complete intolerance to oiling and sooting or coking up.
I hasten to add, these are all 'modern' plugs, fresh from retailers.....

In the same vein, I was, years ago, put onto NGK plug leads for consistent good quality. This advice coming from one David Bogg, a serious tuner of engines, of the ''long screwdriver'' sort....who had his own rolling road [still has, although he is getting on a bit now]...His son is 'famous' for fabricating their own manifolds for bike carb set-ups..... [Bogg Bros, of East Lutton]...as well as sorting out all sorts of vintage, post vintage, old colourful or otherwise, motors...
Anyway, digression is happening....sorry.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3151
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We were very surprised by the quality of the Champion plugs, we use them on other vehicles and they have been fine.

At the end of the day it was a build up of lots of small problems, carb, plugs, HT leads etc.
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1937 Ford 7w
1937 Hillman 80
1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1499
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't discount Ray's suggestion that the plugs may be counterfeit and not Champion at all. It's a few years since I bought plugs for anything but had no problems with Champions when I did, except that many of them have a rather silly screwed terminal arrangement with an annoying tendency to work loose.

I know many people rate NGK plugs, but in my experience they don't seem to suit old British engines. They may well work reliably, but a few times I've found that I get better running with Champion or even NOS Unipart plugs picked up at shows - and I doubt anyone is going to bother counterfeiting those any time soon...
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V8 Nutter



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many years ago I owned a 1964 Plymouth Belvedere. The recommended plugs were Champion, J14Y I think. At one service I replaced them with the NGK equivalent, I couldn't get Champions at the time. From then on it became difficult to start when it was hot. I went back to Champions problem solved.
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2054
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've started preparations to convert my Sportshatch to electric operation*. Yesterday was spent making a bracket, and making a list of other things I'll need to get ordered that either weren't in the kit, were in the kit but weren't quite suitable for my installation, or I thought I'd got but haven't.


( * The fuel pump, that is. The mechanical one has been rebuilt, and is now leaking fuel rather badly. I'm not tempted to buy another rebuilt kit in case that, too, only lasts a couple of years).

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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1541
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem between makes of plug largely stems from the way the maker's organise the heat ranges of their plugs. Often the complete opposite to every other maker. There is no uniform method of doing so.

NGK, for example, list their heat ranges in entirely the opposite way to Champion.

[which can result in problem starting, amongst other things?]

Bosche [or, part of it] has been sold on to the Chinese.

Champion? Not sure who or what owns them now?

Autolite [and Motorcraft] plugs, I have always found prone to having their lower parts corrode....going rusty, consequently proving a problem removing them.

Lodge, similar.

We all have our 'favourites'....
All I can say is, I've always had to replace Champions [and others].....rarely had to replace NGK...before they would normally be due.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1499
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
The problem between makes of plug largely stems from the way the maker's organise the heat ranges of their plugs. Often the complete opposite to every other maker. There is no uniform method of doing so.

NGK, for example, list their heat ranges in entirely the opposite way to Champion.

[which can result in problem starting, amongst other things?]

Bosche [or, part of it] has been sold on to the Chinese.

Champion? Not sure who or what owns them now?

Autolite [and Motorcraft] plugs, I have always found prone to having their lower parts corrode....going rusty, consequently proving a problem removing them.

Lodge, similar.

We all have our 'favourites'....
All I can say is, I've always had to replace Champions [and others].....rarely had to replace NGK...before they would normally be due.


It's true enough that equivalents often aren't, but I suspect there's something more at play. I remember when I first had my Herald, more years ago now than I care to think of. It was running on NGK plugs, I forget the grade but the same grade as enthusiastically recommended for these engines by several folk who ought to know more than myself. Trouble was that the engine would pink badly at the merest suggestion of a hill, rather a problem in this area. Of course I went through timing and so on, but what eventually resolved the problem was binning the NGK plugs and fitting a set of Champions - it was like a different engine. Plenty of people still recommend those NGK plugs but I wouldn't - of course they could have been dodgy counterfeits but I don't believe that was really a thing back then.
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2054
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wished it "Happy Birthday". My daily driver was first registered on April 17th 2000.
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Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21788
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fired up and moved around big Dodge yesterday, gave it a comprehensive wash-down also.

RJ
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Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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