Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[alastairq]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42792813

I noted a lot of frothing in the comments section....by motorists who don't want to pay any more than they do now.

I have no interest in urban charges, or city taxes..I avoid cities like the plague....they unfortunately get filled with people!

What did interest me was the suggestion that road charging, [if targeted to certain types of road]....would mean those who drive because they have to...work, etc commuting, etc.....thus creating more wear & tear..and making greater demands upon the State to improve infrastructure.....thus ought to 'pay' more..[but, given the existing taxation methods for driving will produce less & less revenue as fuel efficiency and VED go to almost zero.....]......and those who chose to use byways and back roads, pay less [or, nothing?]....especially as these roads are by nature, less well maintained?

It's the latter that interests me.

Most of my essential, day-to-day driving involves back roads, and limited mileage...yet I pay just as much as someone who pounds the motorways all day from one end to the other.

Hardly fair, as I feel I'm subsidising others too much.

But..the main point I see is..if such a road charging [based upon usage, rather than fuel ].....came into being, a whole new world of using tech to find routes which avoid all road charges, to get from A to B, could appear.
driving would suddenly [and forcibly?} become more enjoyable again....as we [I presume most on here, being old car enthusiasts, driving not just looking at?]...get around as cheaply as possible?
Leaving major routes, motorways, etc, to the hurly burly world [and they're welcome to it!]....
Getting from A to B would become, once more, a 'journey', rather than simply 'getting there'....something I find most depressing about today's driving.

Nobody seems to 'travel hopefully' any more.

[Penman]

Hi
You could go out and find all those brown or white roads on your OS maps.
I often do it, even on my sat nav, when I divert of the M'ways because of advanced warning about long holdups.
The more obvious A rd diversions get clogged up too easily by others diverting off the M'way.
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Bristols should always come in pairs.

Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10

[MikeEdwards]

It used to be possible on sat-navs to select preferences for the type of road you use, and set motorways to be last resorts. Sadly in the quest to make these things easier to use, a lot of functionality has been removed.

[alanb]

When I was working and traveling up to 30,000 miles a year I used motorways most of the time,getting from A to B as quickly as possible with least hassle regardless of the mileage. Now I am retired weather driving my modern Mercedes or my 37 Morris I try to avoid motorways and busy A roads and larger towns, planning my route using B roads and country lanes where possible. It may mean slightly longer travel time but often less mileage and the journey is much more interesting and pleasant. I have become much more interested in how much fuel I save than how much time saved.
I believe the only fair way to pay for road use is through fuel charges, those who use most fuel pay most, be it by high mileage or uneconomical vehicles, those using the most economical vehicles or traveling fewer miles pay less.
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old tourer


Morris 8 two seater

[Clactonguy]

although it may seem fair to pay for fuel used and distance traveled. for those with deep pockets this is easy option.
those with older large engine cars will have to sell or reduce usage a lot. possibly a fairer way is as we have now a combination of tax and fuel charges . bear in mind those then moving to electric power? or gas etc. will probably have funds and ability to reduce or avoid high taxation and fuel costs.
bottom line is tax paid at moment far exceeds that paid out for infrastructure of UK roads. rest is used by treasury as it sees fit.
I think for historic and classic cars a general limit on mileage /tax can be set eg first 3000 miles free. next 3000 a road tax to be paid set at what is reasonable rate for size of car and emissions.
other vehicles of modern times to have. different rates! thus electric to have to pay tax too.after all they DO run on roads! possibly a black box may need to eb fitted to all cars so. correct use /mileage can be derived. with loss of car and. personal liberty if found to be bypassing the recording device.

[mikeC]

[alastairq]

I admit to favouring road charging, rather than fuel charges. Fuel charges can lead to inequalities. [Why pay road charges to fill up one's lawn mower, for example?]

Road charging can be done quite easily..using ANPR....which is in situ all over the place anyway.

Even barcodes can be read from some distance away....so a barcode instead of a tax disc, perhaps?

Then those of us able to get around using back roads, etc, can enjoy savings in life's expenditures.

[ukdave2002]

[alastairq]

[alanb]

[alastairq]

That would be a tax too far.....Nearly all those old cars [with large engines] were built & sold in a time when fuel prices were more acceptable. Most would have been looked after by more recent owners, on the basis that reduced usage may well be affordable.

Increased fuel duties adversely impact [penalises] those with older larger motors......modern vehicle' 'fuel consumptions mean their drivers would pay a disproportionately smaller contribution towards roads upkeep.

This method of increasing taxation has been looked at before, but increasing the fuel prices really does more harm to the economy as a whole.

I can only assume those who are against road charging, are those who would be more adversely affected..high mileage, modern vehicle drivers. IE those who really should be 'footing the bill'
Then, having the benefits of modern technologies that create better fuel economy, won't penalise those with old gas guzzlers who will do incredibly small mileages by comparison.

Or would folk rather see the likes of me returning to the workplace environment [doing a younger person out of a job in the process?] just to fund occasional runs out in my ancient gas guzzler...which would be relegated to the position of 'museum piece', by increased costs of fuels?

[ukdave2002]

[alanb]

Not all pensioners are rich or get final salary pensions, having paid in for 18 years (£400 a month in the final year) into a personal portable pension, thanks to Mr Brown and the stock market crash I now receive less than a quarter of my contributions as a pension. Even without a mortgage I still have to maintain the property and support my hobby and wife on a lot less than the minimum wage.
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old tourer


Morris 8 two seater

[ukdave2002]

[Peter_L]

Contentious ? Yes. 1 Tax per person, % of income.

After all, have/does those who are unfortunate and use the health system more than others have to pay more than those who may have visited a hospital/doctor very little.

1 tax less admin, I know that means less jobs, so less income tax etc.

For every solution there is aways a problem.

It does seem that we (the world) have a habit of introducing more and more areas of taxation. The modern world didn't arrive here via a preconceived plan.