Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Rootes75]

Thats still a long list to choose from, plenty of options.
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Various Rootes Vehicles.

[Vulgalour]

Dodge is one that we weren't looking for, they just keep crossing our path and being interesting, so it seemed sensible to get them on the list now.

Our interests have been converging somewhat the more we've looked. We seem to gravitate more to mid-sized and into the lower end of large vehicles so that's where we're focusing our attentions. The real problem is that there's too many cars we like and the more we look, the more we find that we didn't know we liked!

Somersets didn't interest me hugely until I started reading build threads and watching the odd video on Youtube about them, there's just something comfortable about them, for want of a better description. Likewise Lanchesters, they just seem like they'd be a nice fit.

I strongly suspect the car will find us rather than us finding the car too. This does feel like it's becoming a purchase made with the heart rather than the head and I'm okay with that. I know the pitfalls involved in that.

The one manufacturer not on the list that probably ought to be is Lea Francis. We both like them, they just seem difficult to find the right example. By which I mean, the car that feels right. So far, we've not seen one for sale that hits the spot. It's rather like Rovers really, for the most part they do nothing for us but every now and then one comes along that's just right in one way or another.

[Vulgalour]

Since my last post here, our hunt for a vehicle has been ongoing slowly alongside trying to fight our way through the mire that is purchasing a house. Finally, we've achieved the goal of a substantial quantity of debt and the keys to our own home.

The new house has a single garage, which is going to be immediately occupied by my Princess. We're planning to build a second single garage alongside, planning permitting, to create a double garage with dimensions generous enough to allow some work space. It is this area that will dictate the size and type of vehicle we acquire as a project, since we don't want the older vehicle to be kept outdoors if we can help it.

There are a handful of vehicles we have kept coming back to, and none of them are particularly glamorous. Here's our current pick:

Austin Somerset - The styling inside and out, the inexpensive nature of them, and the surprising availability of parts make these very appealing. There are no common failings that seem insurmountable and they're plentiful. A good size for our available space and have the benefit of four doors and being a fairly conventional car.

Triumph Mayflower - The most generous description we've been given of these is 'characterful'. By all accounts, these little cars have no redeeming features as a driving experience, being antiquated when new, strangely proportioned, and a little bit daft. For some reason, we keep coming back to them as an option and while they only have two doors, they are an ideal size for our space.

Nash Metropolitan - The biggest issue with these is the cost of them in the UK, they seem to command much higher values than they ought for what they are. That said, their conventional underpinnings and quirky styling, combined with their size, makes them a good enough choice that we're willing to even overlook such shortcomings as the early version's lack of boot lid.

Rover P4 - A sensible classic car. There's not a lot to say about them beyond that really. Easily one of the safest bets and one of the newest we've been considering. Prices are surprisingly low for these seemingly well made and well appointed vehicles.

Morris Isis - Rather like the P4, a sensible classic car and to the newer end. It has the benefit of being a less usual selection and the few we have seen come up for sale have all needed work, but at a price that makes that work not particularly daunting. Not a particularly attractive car and that is, counter intuitively, part of its appeal.

Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire - this one looms large, and that's a big part of the problem. It's probably too large a car for our available space, but one that we both find incredibly appealing and, seemingly, very good value for how much car you get even in very good condition.

Lancia Appia (series 3) - a new addition, and something of a wild card, so may well disappear from this list. A good size, and generally a good price, with some unusual features like the total lack of B pillars, all supported by excellent Lancia engineering.

Of all the above, I strongly suspect we'll end up with a Somerset, a P4, or a Mayflower, and of those the Somerset is likely the most sensible option for us. It's not particularly thrilling, old, or adventurous, but it is much older than either of us have regularly experienced first hand and probably a good way to figure out whether or not a truly pre-war vehicle is what we actually want to get involved in. Pre-war cars are a very romantic notion, they require a good amount of care to keep in good shape and while we do believe we have the skills and motivation to do it, we may not have the time and resources to do it for a little while longer. Far better to keep researching, investigating, and figuring this out before taking the plunge and not being prepared.

So, we've got the first piece of the puzzle sorted now, which is our own home, the next is storage, and then it will be actually trying to find something on the market. Perhaps another two years before we get to that point.

[Keith D]

Vulgalour,
Don't overlook the lack of a boot lid on the Metropolitan. I owned one for a number of years and I dreaded folding down the back seat backs and stretching at arms length to put anything in the boot. Even worse when trying to reach stuff in there to take it out. The last of the Metros (around 1961) had a normal external boot lid that would make it the only one to consider IMHO. Even then, you still had the vertical externally mounted spare wheel to avoid when packing the boot.
Keith
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1926 Chrysler 60 tourer
1932 Austin Seven RN long wheelbase box sedan
1950 Austin A40 tourer
1999 BMW Z3
Its weird being the same age as old people.
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution

[Rootes75]

With regards the Somerset, what about having a look at an Austin Devon? A nice solid 4 door car and you dont see too many about these days.
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Various Rootes Vehicles.

[mikeC]

I certainly wouldn't discount the Mayflower; I have no personal experience of them, but I think it's significant that many of them are in long-term ownership and their owners speak very fondly of them.
I, personally, can recommend the Lancia Appia: it's a sporting drive and you will not be disappointed with the performance of a Series 3. Spares and technical support is pretty good in the UK for what is quite a rare car. They are very cheap for a high-quality car, but people are scared of the unknown!
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in the garage: 1938 Talbot Ten Airline
Recently departed: 1953 Lancia Appia, 1931 Austin Seven, 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on!

[Ray White]

Try looking for a Morris MO Oxford,,, much prettier than the Isis. (Looks like a big Morris Minor)


This little gem caught my eye.
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1160556

[Vulgalour]

The bootless Metropolitan issue is more annoying for the inability to really clean it than it is for the lack of functionality. I say this, because it would effectively be the fourth car in the household, so it doesn't need to be as functional as the other vehicles we have and any jobs it's likely to be asked to do will see the rear seat become adequate storage. The cost is the most likely barrier to ownership, for the same money we can get any number of other more interesting and more practical vehicles in comparable condition.

The Devon was an alternative but, when compared to the Somerset it just isn't as appealing to look at, it's the sort of car that we'd always wish looked like something else because it's slightly awkward proportions haven't that same toy car charm of the Mayflower. We've also been trying to find an Hereford, the larger size makes the styling even more appealing, with no success at all, they simply don't seem to come onto the market that often, presumably because they don't survive or sell in great numbers in the UK. It's the lack of available cars that's pushed the Hereford off the shortlist really, the Somerset seems the more sensible choice here.

As for the MO Oxford, we're not keen on those precisely because they look like a big Minor. The strange proportions of the Morris Six with it's overly long bonnet and strong family resemblance to the Minor also rules it out. Wolseley 6/80 likewise not considered. We do like the Minor, it's just not the car for us and there's so many of them in use and preservation there seems little point in us taking one on.

[Vulgalour]

Mike C: We'd come to the same conclusion about the Mayflower. They seem to be a car that if you really like them, for whatever reason, you end up keeping them for a long time. The Appia is none of the things we thought we were looking for, it's ones that we've seen this year (there were, and may still be, a couple of them on eBay currently) that made us think they could actually work very well. I've had some first hand experience with the quality of these cars due to a couple of Lancias I've had the good fortune to have a poke around in recent years - Flavia Coupé and a Fulvia Coupé, to be specific - and was quite impressed at the construction as a whole, a far cry from what I'd experienced of other Italian offerings such as Alfa Romeo and Fiat. The Appia is pleasantly inoffensive to look at too, whatever we get, how it makes us feel when we see it is just as important as what it's like to drive and how much it costs to keep it in good health. The Appia seems a very friendly car.

How a car makes you feel is quite an important aspect of ownership, so our shortlist is certainly dictated by that. The Mayflower you can't help but smile at, it's a little bit silly looking, and quite inoffensive. The Somerset has a slightly matronly look to it, invokes feelings of comfort without compromising style to the point that it looks dowdy or frumpy. The Metropolitan is cheeky, and slightly comical, and has much the same appeal as the Mayflower, it's a very difficult car to dislike on looks alone. The P4 I'd probably personify as a 'kind uncle' sort of a car, the male equivalent to the Somerset's matronly appearance, you get the feeling that if it were a person, it would be quietly patient. The Sapphire has the air of being a grand old thing, the style of the bodywork and the way they look in motion is of something elegant and sweeping, slightly aloof perhaps, but something that inspires better behaviour in those around it rather than jealousy. The Isis is definitely dowdy, it brings to mind an elderly cat, much loved, with a pretentious name.

Even with modern cars, I look for characteristics in their styling, and with so many cars now being deliberately aggressive it can be a joy to see something like a new Suzuki Jimny in traffic with its inoffensive little face and bright colours to contrast all those furrowed plastic brows and blinding LED faery lights that blight so much traffic.

[alastairq]

The later Micra was styled so as to present a cheery, non-aggressive 'face....deliberately.

I've heard reports that the original London Transport Routemaster bus had the same, kindly effect?
{I used to drive them 'in anger' back int he early 1970's.....almost luxurious to drive, when compared to my normal [weekday] vehicle, the London Transport RT!...sorry, thread drift]
What about an earlier post-wawer Ford? Maybe a Prefect? Or a Pilot? Not all Fords were the bargain basement Popular! But [up until the 100E/Consul] they were certainly 'pre-wawer' in the way they worked, and drove....sort-of, best of both worlds? Superb spares backup as well.
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[Bitumen Boy]

I have a soft spot for Triumph Mayflowers; although I've never driven one and only ever seen a couple of tatty examples at shows. From what little information is out there the suspension of the TR2 was apparently based on/lifted from the Mayflower, so handling may not be too bad at all; most criticism is reserved for the engine and transmission which seem like curious choices today - a three speed 'box with column change and a small sidevalve engine that was reverse-engineered from an OHV unit that Standard were flogging to Morgan... Madness, surely..? Would love to take one out for a spin all the same

[Vulgalour]

We do like the Jellybean Fords, and while the other half likes the posher Pilot, it doesn't really do it for me. Fords, generally, fall into the same bracket as the Minor in that they're not bad cars, they're just not that interesting and it's difficult to get excited about them.

Take the later Z-cars. They're smart looking things, the American influence on the styling is nicely done. But, if I'm looking at that sort of size of car with fins then I'm going to be more interested in a BMC Farina of some variety because they're far more interesting to me. The other half prefers the Z-cars. So this is a type of car we avoid since it's not one we can agree comfortably on.

There's certainly geographical influence on the taste in cars too. The other half has spent pretty much his whole life in the South East, certainly his formative years, so Fords are far more interesting to him than they are to me since they formed much more of his automotive landscape. The only other cars he really mentions as being on his radar were performance focused Datsuns and Toyotas.

I spent the same formative years in Derbyshire, Yorkshire, and Lincolnshire. My taste was undoubtedly affected by the offerings I was surrounded by, which was a lot of BMC and BL stuff, Soviet offerings like FSO, Lada, and Skoda, and a lot of Vauxhalls. The few Fords I did encounter were either knackered old nags limping from one MoT to the next (usually estates as well, now I think about it) and barely dodging the scrapyard, or brand new hot hatches, with very little in between. Really the only other manufacturers of note at the time would be Reliant and Citroen, the former due to the motorbike license loophole for three wheelers, and the latter because they were generally very cheap and generally considered to be disposable.

When you start dissecting what makes you look at certain models favourably you come to realise just how personal a thing it is to pick a project and gain a better understanding of how it really isn't "just a car".

[peter scott]

The Isis is a much safer bet than the Morris Six. The Six used the Wolseley 6/80 engine that is not easy to work on and has inherent problems with its valves that are not permitted to rotate and tend to burn.

Peter
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[alanb]

If you are interested in the Morris Isis have you thought about the Oxford II or III same body as the Isis but slightly shorter bonnet , better road holding than the Isis and almost as good a performance withe it's B series engine, or what about a Standard vanguard roomy interior comfortable and a Triumph TR engine.
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old tourer


Morris 8 two seater

[alanb]

Bitumen boy,
The Triumph mayflower used the pre war Standard ten engine of 1276cc upgraded with an alloy cylinder head and producing 34bhp, there was never an OHV version. The Morgan 4 4 used the same sidevalve engine tuned to give 39BHP after Coventry Climax ceased supply of their 1100cc sidevalve engine, the Morgan +4 was the first 4 wheel Morgan to have a OHV engine and that was the 2088cc engine from the Standard Vanguard the same engine was also used in the Triumph TR2 and the Ferguson tractors.
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old tourer


Morris 8 two seater