classic car forum header
Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
How To Register     Posting Photographs     Privacy Policy     F/book facebook.com/oldclassiccar

xply v radials
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> General Restoration Advice
Author Message
trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 166
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:25 pm    Post subject: xply v radials Reply with quote

Anybody got any experience of swapping from cross ply to radials OF THE SAME SIZE ..ie, Avon do a tyre called a Turbosteel which is a radial, they also do a Turbospeed which is a cross ply in the same fitment. The car is currently on crossplies. If I switch to radial, sure i get better handling and other advantages but i also get more noise and a stiffer tyre, the car becomes a little lees comfortable ( This is what I'm told by both the main suppliers of these tyres ) Thing is, the car is currently on crossplies and the handling doesn't bother me, sure it'd better to be better but my PRIMARY concern with this car is comfort. Anybody done a switch like this and can vouch for the difference in comfort and noise?
_________________
'60 Armstrong Siddeley Star Sapphire
'80 Reliant Scimitar
'47 Jaguar MKIV --- in bits!!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jp928



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 247
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can only speak to changing from xply to Radials on a Rover P4, and noise or harsh ride was not an issue. Handling much improved. Radials seem to be best on suspension with horizontal compliance (ie softer in that plane) where xplys need vertical softness. You really need somebody with experience of the two types in your exact model of car to get a meaningful comparison. Many guys here with vintage (1919-30)cars are now using Radials for improved ride and control.
jp 26 Rover 9
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UmTumTiddly



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 35
Location: Ringwood, New Forest.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I owned a Rover P4 (95) back in the late '70s, I changed the x-plys for radials thinking it was going to improve road holding, etc. My enduring memory is that the steering became considerably heavier, not only at parking speeds, but across the entire speed range, not helped of course by lack of power steering. I put this effect down to the radials having a greater contact area with the road surface than x-plys, hence more friction and effort needed through the turning moment. I have no recollection of the ride and comfort being adversly affected (or improved) but the extra effort taken to drive the car caused me to revert back to x-plys. When I bought my next P4, a 110, I kept it shod as standard - the way it left the production line!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6579
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You get much better cornering on radials and better tyre life. You will also find that radials are much better regarding tramlining on longitudinal irregularities.

Tyre noise is not worse.

The only down sides of the change are that the radials will not look original and the rolling radius will probably be reduced so your overall gearing will be lowered.

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 litre saloon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
alanb



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 514
Location: Berkshire.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the early 70s I had a Rover 100 it had radials fitted when I bought it I never noticed any problems with regard to noise (in fact it was quieter than my company Ford cortina) and I never considered the steering to be particularly heavy either, the car did seem a little vague when cornering hard but Probably better than on crossply tyres.
_________________
old tourer


Morris 8 two seater
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have driven Minis's P4's and P5/P5B's on crossplies and found them totally unsafe for modern driving conditions and no way would we contemplate re-fitting X plies.

We drive all our 7 classics most days (not at the same times) enthusiastically - only one still has X plies as no radials are available but we tone the driving down to avoid mostly tyre squealing. This car is a prewar Rover 16 so handles better than most common cars 30 years younger IMHO.

The P4 is now a little heavier on the steering as is the Mini but no real problem as the safety aspect is far more important
_________________
Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 166
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a plenty of threads about folks experience of one type of tyre over another ...and I'm fully aware of the handling/longevity advantages of radial over crossplies..that's not what I'm asking.

I'm also not concerned in this instance about radials being a different size, as I say, I'm asking about tyres of the SAME SIZE ... Avon Turbospeeds and Turbosteel look pretty much the same, the profile and look of the tyre is authentic in both cases, both being available as a 6.7x16. You'd really have to know what to look for to tell the radial over the crossplies ( The Turbosteel probably has a more '60's looking tread over pre '60's looking tread of the Turbospeed...but the turbosteel looks authentic enough for me and is the same size )

I'm happy to forgo better handling ( The car has excellent power steering and it's OK to drive even with the aged crossplies is's got on it ..although I understand that it'd be BETTER with radials) IF there is a significant deterioration in comfort as the seller suggests. Both Longstone tyres and vintage tyres say " It'll be less comfortable on the Turbosteels.

The question is ...how significant is the difference given tyres of the sames size on the same car?

It's a bit of a minefield, especially give that switching to Turbosteels will cost a thousand quid not including the spare!!!! At least I can change to Turbospeeds one or two at a time!

This is keeping me awake at night...I'm going bonkers.
_________________
'60 Armstrong Siddeley Star Sapphire
'80 Reliant Scimitar
'47 Jaguar MKIV --- in bits!!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21787
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we first took ownership of the Mk1 A40 it was on crossplies, the tyres that it was designed for. I remember it riding well on them, being quiet, but without a great deal of grip if driven enthusiastically. When dad fitted radials, road noise increased but so too did grip. ISTR the steering became a little heavier as a result too, and they don't really look right on an old car, but for regular use I suppose they offered an all-round improvement. I also remember reading (possibly in the A40 club magazine at around that time) of a few people experiencing cracks between stud holes on their A40 wheels, due to the extra stresses put through the rims by the extra grip offered by radials.

The Moggy is on radials at the moment, as they turned up at the right time when I was re-commissioning it a while ago, but visually they do jarr a little. I'd be interested to try a Moggy on crossplies.

Pre-war cars, and even those from the 1950s, can look terrible on radials IMO. I'll never switch from crossplies on a pre-war car, now or in future, as they tend to be driven in a leisurely manner at all times anyway (unless I opt for something sportier perhaps) so ultimate grip or handling isn't really an issue.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the comfort vs handling is so subjective and also depends on your driving style you need the try someone else's car of the same type. Radials will not look and perform the same as its OEM X plies as is quite clear from all the comments received so far

It seems to me that you are suited to X plies so you may as well fit a set. Car suspensions were designed for X plies in the 1940-50's so will not look or perform the same. The suspension does have to be in good form as well.

A Rover P5B had a set of Avon Turbospeed radials on when we bought it - they were the correct size 185R-80 x 15 and looked OK but neither wore very well or handled well in the wet and did not ride well generally

I go for budget radials as punctures and age rather than wear of the tread finishes them off
_________________
Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1446
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One car has crossplies, 325 bhp, and I find no handling problem except tramlining which can literally tear the steering wheel from your grip if you are not alert to the problem. I drove the E-type on crossplies for years but now she wears radials and while the steering is a bit heavier at parking speeds the overall comfort has improved quite considerably. But I don't think the OP's question can really be answered since it is so subjective. My personal experience says radials are more comfortable but don't transmit as much feel from the road. But that is just me, and possibly not you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
victor 101



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 446
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's certainly a difficult subject, when RR/Bentley changed from cross plies to radials on the Silver Shadow and Bentley T they also altered the suspension to compensate(compliant)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rich5ltr



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 639
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What car are you taking about putting them on? I own an Aston Martin DB 2/4 MkIII and I've seen them fitted with both Avon Turbospeed and Turbosteels. For what it's worth, the radials look very similar to the crossplies. My car runs on Turbospeeds so I can't make comment on the ride.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 166
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil ... you said your Rover had Turbospeed radials on iit? Turbospeed's are crossplies?

Lowdrag .... Re the E-type, change from crossplies to raidals and comfort increased!!! Well that's interesting. you provide a very interesting point ...certainly your experience is contrary to lore!
_________________
'60 Armstrong Siddeley Star Sapphire
'80 Reliant Scimitar
'47 Jaguar MKIV --- in bits!!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1446
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With any crossply you have two problems; longevity and tramlining. I wore out a complete set of crossplies on one track day, but I have never managed that with radials. Radials have pliant sidewalls and will not react to truck ruts, and because they are pliant do not give kick back through the wheel. For the average driver radials give a far longer life and better roadholding in general. I've had the E-type for over 30 years so I feel qualified to give my considered response to the question.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6579
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. The compliant side walls of radials do give a better ride than any crossply and roadholding, tramlining and tyre life are all better probably by a factor of 2.

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 litre saloon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> General Restoration Advice All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum T&C


php BB powered © php BB Grp.