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[split] Old Range Rovers and rusty Discos
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1228
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To continue the ignition saga; I've now replaced everything again, this time with Powerspark kit. I can now get a spark at least an inch long from plug lead to plenum chamber, thick and bright blue! So, having got that sorted, I went back to the LPG man for re-tuning. Poor lad tried all sorts, but could not get it to his satisfaction. It even stopped again on road test, but restarted again and drove back to the workshop. it was ticking over like a pregnant walrus, when i got quite annoyed and slapped my hand down on the air filter box, whereupon the engine spluttered, but didn't quite stop. Fiddling with the four-wire connector on the air flow meter caused the same problem. I unplugged it, cleaned it all up and the car has been superb ever since!
I think we've had a combination of things ganging up here , all of which have been hiding this basic problem individually, so i might not have needed to replace the ignition, but the Powerspark kit is so good that I'll leave it on.
Anyone need any little used ignition kit for a V8? I've got plenty! Four hundred miles on, and the car seems better than it has ever been, so much so that I just cannot stop driving it!
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3198
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a "bonnet open" message on the dash of my P38 accompanied by an irritating bleep.

I checked out the switch and positioned it properly and checked the wires were on but to no avail. I have been given two differing opinions as to how the electrickery works (or doesn't as the case may be) - seemingly depending on the age of the car.

1) The micro switch is operated when the bonnet is open and goes "open circuit" causing a fault to be flagged up on the dash. This is how I would have imagined it works with a break in the current when the bonnet is opened. i.e open bonnet = open circuit = warning given.

OR

2) The micro switch closes a circuit when the bonnet is open sending a message through one of the on board the computers. A faulty switch or wiring short will fail to send a message so a fault is detected and the warning issued anyway.

I am out of my depth but will keep treading water until someone comes to my rescue.

My hunch is that joining two wires together will delete the message but I suppose there is always the risk that I will make matters worse... .
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alanb



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 423
Location: Berkshire.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modern vehicle electronics make it almost impossible for owners to carry out diagnostics or repairs of all but the most basic faults. I had a reoccurring fault with my 3 year old Mercedes earlier this year whereby the warning came up saying I had a flat tyre, I checked the tyres all good reset warning message and a few days later same thing happened, it turned out to be a faulty accelerator pedal, apparently there are sensors in the pedal that link to the ecu and wheel sensors to determine the speed of each wheel compared to the accelerator input thus being able to detect a flat tyre, all very clever but impossible to find without the correct diagnostic equipment.
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Last edited by alanb on Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 667
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to vary by year/model.
Several solutions here:

https://www.rangerovers.net/threads/p38-bonnet-open-message.222154/
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3198
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You found the same thread as me!

I wonder what would happen if I momentarily joined the two wires? Hopefully the message would go. Worse thing I imagine would be a blown fuse??

I haven't read anywhere of someone stuffing up the computer but if anyone can...I CAN !

Incidentally, the workshop manual is no help. You need a degree in brainy stuff to understand it.
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 667
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray
It's only a blessed on/off or off/on switch!

I think if you twist the 2 wires together.........
if there's no change, then the computer still thinks there's an open circuit, which may indicate a break in the wiring/blown fuse/corroded connection.
if there IS a change, then there's something up with the contacts in the switch = sandpaper or switch cleaner.

If there's a way to design a more complex system, BMW/MINI/RR will sure as hell find it or invent a new one.
To change a headlight bulb - 1) remove the exhaust pipe 2) open the sunroof etc etc....
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3198
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MVPeters wrote:
Ray
It's only a blessed on/off or off/on switch!

I think if you twist the 2 wires together.........
if there's no change, then the computer still thinks there's an open circuit, which may indicate a break in the wiring/blown fuse/corroded connection.
if there IS a change, then there's something up with the contacts in the switch = sandpaper or switch cleaner.

If there's a way to design a more complex system, BMW/MINI/RR will sure as hell find it or invent a new one.
To change a headlight bulb - 1) remove the exhaust pipe 2) open the sunroof etc etc....


Mike. It's when you are told that the flipping thing is 'computerised' that the alarm bells start ringing. So far in the six or so years of my ownership I have found ways of avoiding the specialists/rip off merchants.

The P38 has three onboard computers and the idea was that you would likely be so intimidated as to take it to a dealer to have the various messages deleted. I have a "kicker" that can do the same thing the instant it is plugged in... and for FREE!

I will join the wires and see what happens. All I want is for the message and bleeps to go away.
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1095
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alanb wrote:
Modern vehicle electronics make it almost impossible for owners to carry out diagnostics or repairs of all but the most basic faults. I had a reoccurring fault with my 3 year old Mercedes earlier this year whereby the warning came up saying I had a flat tyre, I checked the tyres all good reset warning message and a few days later same thing happened, it turned out to be a faulty accelerator pedal, apparently there are sensors in the pedal that link to the ecu and wheel sensors to determine the speed of each wheel compared to the accelerator input thus being able to detect a flat tyre, all very clever but impossible to find without the correct diagnostic equipment.

My X-type came up with a message that the DSG was faulty. On the Jaguar forum I learned that there is a very small voltage range and if the battery is not fully up to it, this can cause messages which has nothing to do with anything actually faulty. And yes, after fitting a new battery no warning messages anymore Very Happy
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3198
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My P38 will show "gearbox fault" (amongst other things) if the battery has gone down. It is alarming when it first appears but you get used to it...

... this is because there is a special relay that is constantly live and even when every thing is switched off will wake the system up every six hours to check that the car is sitting level. If there is the slightest leak in the EAS it will be detected and the compressor will pump up which ever corner is down.

The inevitable result - if the car isn't used for a while - is a flat battery. I have now switched the fancy relay (under the passenger seat) for an ordinary one and the battery stays up for much longer.
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1228
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
My P38 will show "gearbox fault" (amongst other things) if the battery has gone down. It is alarming when it first appears but you get used to it...

... this is because there is a special relay that is constantly live and even when every thing is switched off will wake the system up every six hours to check that the car is sitting level. If there is the slightest leak in the EAS it will be detected and the compressor will pump up which ever corner is down.

The inevitable result - if the car isn't used for a while - is a flat battery. I have now switched the fancy relay (under the passenger seat) for an ordinary one and the battery stays up for much longer.


Don't you just love 'em? Confused
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3198
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I look at it is that any problems I encounter with the P38 will have been met by many other owners as well. As it says in the Good Book "there is nothing new under the Sun"... so the chances are that a quick fix for the D.I.Y. guy - if it exists - will be talked about on line.

I think the most bizarre design that I have come across is the link between the E.A.S. and the starter solenoid. I once received a call from my wife who had reluctantly borrowed my P38 to go shopping. She had returned to the car in the Supermarket car park only to find it would not start.

What had happened was that the replacement compressor (that I had been sent; along with a replacement valve block) had burned out. It materialised that it shared a fuse that protects the starter. There is a 35 mph "get you home" system that allows the car to be driven on it's bump stops should the EAS fail but What use it is if you can't start the car!.

Fortunately a high value (40a?) fuse had the car running again but I personally have doubts about the wisdom of a fused starter - especially one dependent on other functions.
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1228
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bl**dy Disco has now developed the dreaded leaky sunroofs! Anyone know of a simple cure without taking the headlining out, pls?
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1263
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmmmm...Fourtrak still going strong....
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Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 3198
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emmerson wrote:
The bl**dy Disco has now developed the dreaded leaky sunroofs! Anyone know of a simple cure without taking the headlining out, pls?


Try cleaning out the drainage channels. I don't know if it will help but you might just find where it is leaking.

The P38 has developed a sagging headlining. There is a firm who do a replacement while you wait but it doesn't come cheap. Crying or Very sad
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1263
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The P38 has developed a sagging headlining. There is a firm who do a replacement while you wait but it doesn't come cheap.

Had same issue with 2 SAAB 900s....real pain in thebutt for rear seat passengers....took lots of spray glue, although headlining did come out in one piece, on backing board, which I used again...never again, however....much preferred Vauxhall's solution [Cavalier], of a one piece moulded plastic lining, with flock sprayed on...child-proof, dog proof, tom sauce proof!
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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