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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3666
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdave2002 wrote:
Interesting.....I'm a bit of a thread geek Rolling Eyes...note to self "get a life"

I wonder if anyone can answer all 3 questions:

1) Whats the thread that Morris used on its 8's & 10's track rod ends? (hint its non of the threads in Rays post)

2) What thread do Smiths & Meccano share, and where do Smiths use it?

3) Which vehicle manufacturer mixes imperial & metric on the same screws & bolts?


Dave



1) Whats the thread that Morris used on its 8's & 10's track rod ends? (hint its non of the threads in Rays post)

This is a 5/8" Admiralty 26 TPI thread , similar to a cycle thread but cut at 55°

2) What thread do Smiths & Meccano share, and where do Smiths use it?

A 5/32" BSW is the common thread; used to hold Smiths fuel sendor's in place.

3) Which vehicle manufacturer mixes imperial & metric on the same screws & bolts?

The easy one; Pre -war Morris/MG used metric threads with BSF spanner heads

Dave
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roverdriver



Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 1191
Location: 100 miles from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those Metrinch spanners take me back to my boyhood. I saw an advertisement in a magazine for a wonderful new style spanner. Although a push-bike was my transport I was looking to the day when I might buy a car. The year was 1957 or 58. I sent away for one of the spanners, all I could afford at the time. It was almost identical to the Metrinch. It did prove to be a useful toll, but was eventually lost.
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2053
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing (well, probably not nothing, but for this thread*) annoys me more than the conversation "What size is that bolt head?" "It's half-inch." "Oh, what's that, is that 13mm?"

(* sorry).
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4214
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this which might be of interest:

History of the Metric System
The French are widely credited with the originating the metric system of measurement. The French government officially adopted the system in 1795, but only after more than a century of sometimes contentious bickering over its value and suspicion surrounding the intent of metric proponents.

Gabriel Mouton, a church vicar in Lyons, France, is considered by many to be the founding father of the metric system. In 1670, Mouton proposed a decimal system of measurement that French scientists would spend years further refining. In 1790, the national assembly of France called for an invariable standard of weights and measurements having as its basis a unit of length based on the Earth’s circumference. As a convenience the system would be decimal based, with larger and smaller multiples of each unit arrived at by dividing and multiplying by 10 and its powers.

Borrowing from the Greek word “metron,” or “a measure,” a commission assigned by the academy gave the name “meter” to the unit of length. The standard it represented was to be constructed so as to equal a fraction of the distance from the North Pole to the equator. Indicative of the difficulties surround adoption of the new system, a survey team charged with measuring the arc of the earth aroused such suspicion that they were harassed and even jailed by local officials as they went about their work. Napoleon himself would even ban the system before it was officially adopted by the French government.

Because of the metric system’s adaptability to scientific and engineering work, adoption of the system flourished with rapid expansion of the industrialized world. The U.S. Congress declared the system lawful in commerce throughout the nation in 1866. Twenty years earlier, the French made use of the system compulsory.

In the period of 1970 to 1980, there was a strong movement in the United States toward widespread use of the metric system. That initiative lost momentum, and the nation continues to use a dual system of measurement even though the system is now employed widely throughout the world. There is a strong likelihood that the United States will eventually yield to international pressure to produce and label U.S. goods in metric units. Some industries in the national have already converted to the metric system, which is now known as the SI, or International System of Units.

*“Timeline of Important Dates In The History Of The Metric System– 1670: Gabriel Mouton proposed his decimal system of measurement based on a fraction of the Earth’s circumference.
– 1671: Jean Picard proposed the swinging pendulum as a measure of length.
– 1790: The National Assembly of France asked the French Academy of Sciences to create a standard system of weights and measures.
– 1795: France adopted the metric system.
– 1840: French government required all Frenchmen to convert to the metric system.
– 1866: Congress legalized the use of the metric system in the United States. However, its use was not required.
– 1875: The Treaty of the Meter was signed at the close of the International Bureau of Weights and Measures conference.
– 1957: The U.S. Army and Marine Corps adopted the metric system. Used as the basis for their weapons and equipment.
– 1965: Great Britain began adopting the metric system.
– 1988: Congress passed the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act. This act called for all federal government agencies to use the metric system for business by the end of 1992. ”

** “Benefits Of The Metric System
One group of units used to measure items such as length, temperature, time and weight is known as the metric system. Some units that come from the metric system you may have heard of : the meter, the kilogram, the second and the kelvin.
For many years, there have been debates about the pros and cons of the metric system. No matter how many arguments or lengthy discussions stem from this debate of meter vs. foot, kilometer vs. mile and kilograms vs. pounds, there are many benefits of the metric system. Here are just a few:

1. The metric system has been adopted by most major countries around the world. By the mid-1970s, most countries had converted to the metric system or had plans to do so. When it comes to measurement, the United States is the only major country who has not adopted the metric system! Using the metric system just makes sense, in order to standardize measurement around the globe.
2. The metric system was created by scientists. When invented, it was designed to fit their needs, so it is a logical and exact system.
3. The metric system was designed to be simple! When making measurements of all kinds, it is only necessary to know a few metric units! In all, there are only 7 base units in this system of measurement! Compared to the twenty base units found in the inch-pound system of measurement, it is much easier to remember. The metric system also follows the decimal number system, so each metric unit increases or decreases in size by 10. (Ex. 1 meter = 10 decimeters; 1 decimeter = 10 centimeters; etc.) “


* Source: http://www.us-metric.org/origin-of-the-metric-system/
** Source: http://www.us-metric.org/going-metric-pays-off/
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jp928



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 247
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apropos this subject, recommend all to read EXACTLY by Simon Winchester. Among other stuff he tells us that Whitworth made a micrometer in 185? that read to .000001" , enabled by a 4000 tpi thread. See if you cut one of those today!
I thing the French spell it 'metre' !
jp 26 Rover 9
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4214
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These very fine adjustments have few applications outside a laboratory but if Whitworth actually did produce such an instrument with the limited understanding of metallurgy at the time, I can only say I am impressed. I think I would be less credulous if such an instrument had survived.

...and yes "metre" is the correct spelling.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3666
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To cut a 4000 tpi thread would indeed be an impressive feat of engineering , the thread would be incredibly fragile, to give some context the pitch of the thread would be around a 1/3 of the thickness of kitchen foil!
I can't think of a tooling material that would be robust enough to cut such a fine thread?

Whitworth did make a gauge capable of measuring to a millionth of an inch, but it wasn't based on a single fine thread, it had gearing.





Dave
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jp928



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 247
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe Mr Winchester has been misled? Will explore this.
jp 26 Rover 9
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 757
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if this is 'cross-posting', 'duplication' or simply combining two hobbies!
But if you're following one thread, try the other one.

https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/identifying-thread-types.1416989/#post-2527221

http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21246&highlight=thread+types
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4214
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Credit due to Doug Pelton (From the Frame Up)
https://www.fromtheframeup.com/uploads/TT_Thread_size_chart.pdf
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Edwards annoyance re spanner sizes annoys me. I was chastised 50 year ago when I asked a middle-aged engineer if he had a 10mm nut for my dd's DAuton Union DKW. He said do I really want that or was that the AF spanner size. I did say I wanted an M6 nut of course.

The car restoration and Car Mechanics mags journalists/DIY experts always really mean the AF spanner size when they quote bolt/nut sizes even when the fixings are BSW and Whitworth. They should make it clear that they mean AF not diameter
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baconsdozen



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: Under the car.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminds me of my old foreman. If he saw anyone using an adjustable he would ask them to pass it to him so 'He could have a look at it'. He'd then throw it out of the window and advise its owner if he saw him using one again they'd go out the window the same way.
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