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Estimating a Singer Gazelle IIIC from 1962
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Havanit



Joined: 06 May 2020
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:24 am    Post subject: Estimating a Singer Gazelle IIIC from 1962 Reply with quote

Hello,

I would like to know how much a Singer Gazelle IIIC from 1962 in its current state is worth. Maybe you could give me an estimation, some advices or point me to others forums ?

It's a french version. It has been stocked in a (more of less dry) barn for 45 years. The wheels, brakes and the motor are seized up (but it can turn). The tyres are most probably to be changed. The frame has some rust on the surface, but nothing too bad it seems.
Here are some pictures : https://imgur.com/a/U2c2Trn? , and a better picture from the inside https://i.imgur.com/FSjmxYH.jpg

What is your opinion about it ?

Thank you, have a nice day Smile
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1198
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very difficult to see if there is any rust on the body. There seems a rust spot on the end of the left hand side sill / start of the wheel arch. These are difficult points to repair. It does help if the (other) wheel arches are rustfree.
The hood has rips so would need renewing, which is a costly affair (someone local to me had a new top made for his Singer convertible which cost him 4000).
Bumper at the rear bent?
Are all papers with the car (Carte Grise)?

Without a good inspection as a rough estimate, I would think the car be worth around 2000. At least that is what I would give for it Very Happy
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4335
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
badhuis wrote:

Without a good inspection as a rough estimate, I would think the car be worth around 2000. At least that is what I would give for it Very Happy


I think that is the most telling part of your post.

What something is worth is not necessarily it's value.

I know what is quoted daily as the price/value of the Euro, but I consider it as only worth 0.50.

Given a willing seller and a willing buyer, the value of ANYTHING is What the Buyer is prepared to pay.

If someone else is prepared to pay 10 times what you offer then that has become the value.
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COMMAD



Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 170
Location: Gold Coast. Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Cool Nice car, has lots of potential, go for it. Value is what you can afford. It's up to you. Cool Cool
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3149
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The seller will ask a price, you have a good look around it and if you think its worth it then go for it.

If you do think the price is fair in your mind I would still haggle the price, that's just part of buying a car.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21782
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must be quite a rare car now, no? My understanding is that the original poster owns this car and is seeking a valuation. Whether there's a good market for such a car in France, I'm not sure, and being LHD *may* put off potential buyers in the UK, or at least keep the likely value pinned down somewhat.

RJ
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1198
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Rick.
Market for these in Europe is really, really small. I know of two similar cars. One from a dealer in much better condition, been trying to sell it for a couple of years. It was not overly expensive (around 6000) but as far as I know he still has it.
Another I know its owner is will be trying to sell because too much cars. It is in a similar condition - standing for years, a bit of rot here and there, but it has that new top I mentioned. For that I suppose he will not accept offers under at least 5k. I would guess he has a problem selling it for that kind of money.
LHD will be a bonus for European buyers but I do not think there are much takers here.

I would love to have it 15 years ago instead of my 4 door Minx. Beautiful car, especially in that Singer guise. Now, not so much anymore - too much cars you know Very Happy
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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being an expat in France the price asked for classic by the French is usually quite a bit higher than in the UK. As an example I am looking for a nice Tiger 100 from the 60s. Here in France I am being asked about 10,000. I have found a fully restored one in perfect condition in the UK for 6,000. I did a quick search on several sites for the Rootes group marques and didn't find one equivalent vehicle for sale, so no Hillmans, Sunbeams or whatever, apart from a Singer 9. That brings up the question of spares availability, and only a club member could probably answer that. In France, I would not give much hope of finding much at all, if anything. In all the meetings I have been to over 20 years, I have seen but one, a Sunbeam, a 1950s Talbot, but of the 50s/60s Vogue style, nary a one. Given that the engine is seized, the wheels too, I don't hold out much hope of a sale at all, although someone in the UK might want to save it or have it as a parts car. But that would involve the cost of collecting the car, so again, not a lot would be my answer.Even in the UK there is a running car, 75,000 and three owners, for sale at 2,750, and a rebuilt concours Gazelle convertible at 10,000. Getting 1,000 for it as is would be about my mark. Oh, and I do love the comment "tyres may need changing" Very Happy
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
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Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not even entertain this car if it needs to be shipped to the U.K.

If, however, I were looking to use it in France then I would go for it. The problem with all Rootes cars though is rust...and it's the rust you can't see that is the biggest problem. If the sills look a bit rusty from the outside just what lies behind could be many times worse.

Having said that, this one looks promising.

Offer 1500 and see what the response is.
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1198
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A similar (but different of course) Sunbeam Rapier convertible is being auctioned in Belgium the next week. LHD, Swiss car. Nice condition, not showroom condition. Start price 5250. I think this car has been at least two times before on the auction and presumably did not reach the reserve price.

https://www.auctim.com/ords/auctim/auctions/nl/lot/3056640/1958_sunbeam_rapier_serie_2_convert


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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good on the outside but they seem to be shy about showing the engine. I see a diaphragm jet carb. in the boot so I suspect it might have a 1725 cc unit up front. Doesn't look as if it has overdrive.

Peter
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4213
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought the Sunbeam Rapier had the edge over the Singer. If it does have the 1725 engine I imagine it would go quite well.... until, that is, the front main gave trouble Razz
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alanb



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 514
Location: Berkshire.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Singer actually looks better than the Sunbeam, I never did like those fins on the rapiers much prefer the more rounded ones on the Hillman and Singer, or none as per the earlier ones.
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of the 3 styles I would put the Singer at the top, I do like the way it looks.
My Father had a Rapier in his youth and he still hankers for a nice one!
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