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1951 Lanchester LD10
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look at the last page of this http://ld10.awardspace.co.uk/articles/trader138.pdf

it points out the filler location for the flywheel.

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That exploding flywheel story is rather shocking and entirely what I'd expect from LT. They seemed to like putting their vehicles through all sorts of "but what if the driver is an idiot" type tests.

Indeed... a policy of ''see if there's a risk first, before making a rule?''
Oher rules a driver had to comply with....[bear in mind, this s for the rear entrance , half cab double deckers] included..on RTs..that a driver was not permitted to drive with the drivers door open.
The doors were sliding doors, sliding forwards to gain access. the ''doorhole'' wasn't a full height jobbie, one had to climb the footsteps and try to go in feet first. The sliding door had a small sliding window...so with the door closed there was very little fresh air ventilation from that source..hence the temptation [more often than not, in my experience] to drive with the door open. There was a sliding side window on the left side, which opened up right on top of the huge rubber radiator cap...with all it's steamy stuff and heat, entering the cab. Windscreens could be opened a bit..but invited the ingress of flies and other cars exhaust smoke. Not good in an Oxford Street traffic jam? I hated the summer, driving buses.
However, i digressed..the reason for not having the driver's door open whilst driving stemmed from the tendency of the whole body of the bus to actually lean over when cornering [the chassis sayed upright]...The seat went with the body..the steering wheel stayed with the chassis..which resulted in some unusual driving sensations...and the proven risk of drivers sliding out of the seat on left hand bends...and out through the open door. I witnessed this happen [I assume that was the reason?] but from a distance behind...the RT did not stop simply because, like Elvis, the driver had left the building....one of the characteristics of a fluid flywheel..the bus simply drove on, on the over-run admittedly..but required some athletic dexterity on the part of a nearby bus inspector to get into the cab and yank the handbrake on...[with feet still dangling outside, as I recall]..Meanwhile, the bewildered driver was sat on his backside in the middle of the road......not too far from the War Museum, as I recall?
Although I didn't give it much thought at the time, I do now wonder what mishaps befell drivers over the decades, that resulted in this myriad of drivers rules that London Transport thrust upon us?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4750
Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Alastairq
Those stories deserve telling on a bus orientated site such as SCT61, it would be much appreciated.

There is a thread there called Cab Doors

I found it by entering Falling Out in the Search in caption...... Box and highlighting the Message button.

http://www.sct61.org.uk/search
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6284
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter scott wrote:
If you look at the last page of this http://ld10.awardspace.co.uk/articles/trader138.pdf

it points out the filler location for the flywheel.

Peter


That is excellent, Peter. An interesting and in depth look at the service requirements of the LD10 which will no doubt be invaluable to the new owner.

I was particularly interested in how to stop a gear from slipping.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's quite remarkable just how much information is out there for this car, and how easily available. It's at odds with its rarity, really.
---

Our first arrival of the day was some useful literature. Also a tweed jacket I fancied, always buy off-season, it's much more affordable. I was surprised to find the correct book for my specific car on eBay for £10 delivered, and delighted at the battered appearance, perfect for the car.


I then spent another couple of hours on this today. Acquired some black T-cut to use after the regular plain T-cut and get rid of the white-ish marks wherever there was texture or panel edges. My first job was to spend some more time with the sandpaper smoothing the worst of the surface rust off that front wing. It revealed some excellent layers and texture, and even some paint that almost held a shine.






I managed to get the wing as far as looking a little shinier than the flat paint on the other side.


A little bit more time and I had the other wing done, a significant transformation.


When you're doing this sort of job, it can sometimes be a bit difficult to remind yourself just how much you've done. I like to leave an area in the middle of refinished areas if I can, so I have something to come back to for a sense of achievement and to keep myself on target with progress. It also makes for excellent before and after photographs.


After about an hour and a half's graft, I had both front wings, the bonnet, the infill panel behind the bumper, and both engine side panels done. I was giving it three or four passes with regular T-cut until the fogging was gone as much as possible, and then finishing with one or two passes of black T-cut which really helps deepen the colour and draws the eye away from the worst of the scratches. Some of the scratches on the panels are really very bad, I'm not sure what the goal was by whoever was doing it. Wherever the original paint has survived it takes a shine very quickly and is a joy to work with.





Another half an hour or so and I had almost a quarter of the roof done. Unfortunately there's not a lot of space in the garage and even less light, so I couldn't go further than this. I also did what I could reach of the scuttle.


Now we really just have to wait for the spark plugs to arrive so that we can try and drive the car. Partner and I do not want to push this car again unless we absolutely have to, Made a start cleaning the engine bay too, didn't get very far thanks to the heat. There has been some rewiring, it's not terrible on the face of things, it just doesn't look great. We assume this had been either rotted original wiring, or mouse damage, or both. Either way, it reinforces our desire to rewire the car.


There's some nice plates on the bulkhead.


The bonnet release is the bonnet mascot on this car (some readers will already be aware of this clever little feature). The front stud/bolt is missing entirely so we'll need to replace that.




All in all, a satisfying few days of work. The only other item of note is that there are signs the car had a roof rack fitted at some point, dimples and wear on the gutters right where you'd expect clamps to be. It's very unlikely we'll fit a roof rack to the car again ourselves.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alastairq's story about the bus driver falling out raised a chuckle here. I hope they were all okay of course, it just presents a humourous mental image. Got to enjoy a good bit of schadenfreude now and then.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:


That is excellent, Peter. An interesting and in depth look at the service requirements of the LD10 which will no doubt be invaluable to the new owner.

I was particularly interested in how to stop a gear from slipping.


Yes, the Motor Trader articles are quite useful. Before I bought my old car I was lucky enough to pick up a copy containing most of the British cars and commercials of the late 1940s that included the post war version of my car which helped a lot. There was nothing written about idling the Wilson box whilst in gear as you will have seen though!

Peter Wink
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2680
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vulgalour wrote:
It's quite remarkable just how much information is out there for this car, and how easily available. It's at odds with its rarity, really.
---






Lanchesters were popular with Royalty..

http://www.lanchesterinteractive.org/q-queen-elizabeth
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6284
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is fortunate that this is a Wilson preselector epicyclic gearbox. If it was a Cotal version with a series of electromagnetic clutches for gear selection - and a derth of information - it could be a nightmare.

The only problem I have heard of regarding the Wilson pre selector box is apocryphal. Apparently it is easily possible to select the wrong gear at speed and blow up the engine.

Anyone know if this is even possible?
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HArping back to the London buses...[my most practical experience of pre-selector gearboxes]....it was certainly possible to select the 'wrong' gear for the road speed.
In much the same way as it is entirely possible to achieve the same results with a manual gearbox [and synchromesh]...

The selector lever on AEC RT buses was a horizontal, cast metal box attached to the side of the steering column.....each gear had an appropriate slot.
The gate was an H pattern,laid on its side.

The legs [slots] for each gear were a different length.

4th gear [top gear] was a slot underneath the 2nd gear slot.....The 2nd gear slot wa shorter than the 4th gear slot..so, if in a hurry, or distracted by outside events [traffic] it was possible to 'select' 4th gear to rapidly...the lever hitting the end of the slot, and bouncing back a bit.....to lie underneath the end of the 2nd gear slot.

Thus, at 20-odd mph, pulling hard in 3rd gear...one would operate the operating pedal....and the bus would promptly stand on its nose-end as 2nd gear was acquired.....This would doubtless be accompanied by the sound of scuttling boots form upstairs, as passengers or conductor rapidly headed for the front windows.....
The gear selector didn't know the difference in height between the 2nd gear slot, and 4th gear slot.
All the driver could do on realising the error, would be to stamp down on the operating pedal, which disengaged the gearbox brake band clamps....
The appropriate gear could then be selected, and on raising the operating pedal, that gear would be acquired.....followed by profuse apologies to all concerned.

I have no real experience of Lanchester's selector system....if it is arranged in an arc, then the mistake can occur by incorrectly positioning the selector lever, I presume?

The AEC gearbox had a cam inside, which was rotated by the selector lever in the cab...I presume the Wilson box has much the same mechanism?

Interestingly, for the time, the preselector gearbox could handle a lot more power [torque] than the then current manual, conventional gearboxes....

Probably why ERA racers used them?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect the Lanchester's gear selection will be less fraught than the AEC, the lever doesn't seem to be easily knocked out of position. Something to keep in mind when we do get to driving, of course. Bus driving seems a stressful career!

---

Remembered to do a light test while it was dark. Brake lights are currently inoperative, probably bad connections somewhere, they were working on sidelights when we got the car. Managed to persuade the front sidelights to operate with a bit of a wiggle and a bump. Semaphore active too. The semaphores are quite visible in the dark at least and seem to illuminate the edges of the car, making it more visible too.


Headlights (which look much brighter here than they are in person) and the other more orange replacement semaphore in action.


The instrument illumination is quite poor, it wasn't much better than this in person. The numbers did seem to glow a bit in person, I don't know if that was an illusion or if they actually do have a glowing property. Suffice to say, I couldn't see a thing on the dials regardless, even with the Oil and Ign lights extinguished to allow the instrument lights to appear more bright.



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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2680
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Send me your address, we have "glow worms" by the thousands in the acreage.
How better to spend a warm summer evening than on the back seat of a motor vehicle with the one you love...... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I suggest investigating the replacement of the smaller bulbs here & there, with LED equivalents?
Whilst, for dashboards, I find LED backlighting to be somewhat startling [not as startling as my first encounter with a Nissan Cherry's night-time dashboard, however....], for exterior sidelights, number plate lights, indyflators, etc..LED's present a useful, modern tech alternative.
Not from the viewpoint of being 'brighter' than 16-glow-worms-trapped-in-a-glass-bulb..as my Dellow has....but from the viewpoint of drawing less current than a conventional bulb..When added up over the whole car, that is quite a saving of amps for a '50s dynamo?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1

http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk/LED%20Lighting.htm
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally, I'd be averse to swapping out incandescent bulbs for LED, I've been quite stubborn about it on the Princess... however, for some lights on the Lanchester it would certainly be a wise upgrade.

We are going to be fitting a new Autosparks loom which will no doubt improve matters. There's certainly some electrical gremlins to flush out at the moment, some of the lights are temperamental, many of the glow worms are quite old now, most of them probably remember The War.
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