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1951 Lanchester LD10
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 822
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MVPeters wrote:
A bit late now, I'm afraid!
A socket on a long extension will position the ratchet clear of the terminal end of the motor & the exhaust with more room to swing it.
If there's a 'next time', it may save some dis-assembly.


I did say I was a bit late! Extensions are not expensive & I think you'll find lots of uses - getting at the exhaust studs if you need to, for example.

While I'm spending your money, a small soft brass brush (suede shoes?) is useful for cleaning around contacts.

I'm curious what that extra wire on the main starter terminal is for. It's live all the time & I really don't think it should be where it is - but there may be a reason.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do have a brass brush, it was just on the big side for this job. I don't think I was having a very smart day that day, I didn't even trace that skinny wire, just repaired what had broken and replaced it where we found it. I'll have a look and see where it goes, there's no electrical extras on the car so there won't be many things it would go to.

Hoping for some good weather this weekend as I'll have some free time to investigate things a bit further. If Pat can get some time off as well we might even be able to make some wiring progress which would be super.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The smaller wire is simply the whole system connection to the battery. It goes to the A terminal on the control box and is always live.

Peter
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1733
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

badhuis wrote:
Have not finished reading the complete post but want to comment to this

Quote:
Both Pat and I grew up being educated on Imperial and Metric so we're good with feet and inches, centimetres and millimetres, the usual. But when it comes to fractions for sizes it is the most frustrating foreign language to us. I want to go a size up from a 3/8ths? No idea. A size down from a 1/4"? Not a clue. It will come with practice I'm sure, but right now it's just so much nonsense.


Do yourself a favour and print a chart. Google "thread sizes chart" and you see what I mean. I taped a copy to my car lift and use it very often! So easy to see what size is just above or below a given number, be it metric, UNF or BSF. I use this a lot!

[/quote]

Some of the older Haynes manuals used to have such a chart printed inside, it was useful with 80's built Minis (and probably other BL cars) that were built with a baffling mixture of fasteners - you could find BS, AF and metric stuff all jumbled up together plus some that didn't seem to fit with any standard.

Another thing that would help is if you can arrange your tools in size order, either in a roll or on a board of some kind. Mark the sizes and I think you'll soon find that you know the next size up or down without really having to think about it at all. I got some tidy rolls for spanners off the local market years ago for not a lot of cash and searching ebay for "tool roll" just now threw up all sorts of options.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you've saved me looking to find out what that wire is for, and that chart is a very good idea. The tool roll idea is also a good one, I do crafts on the Youtube channel every other week and that would be an ideal project since it's quick and simple. I'll sort through the spanners and find the most complete set and make a roll to suit, they're a fairly simple thing to make and given the materials I already have it seems a bit daft to spend actual money when I can make one, or three, or however many sets of spanners we actually have. I've also got some bits of jeans from other projects, and a good strong cotton twill (without stretch) is ideal for this sort of thing. Looks like we could be solving an organisational problem for our favourite price!
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little bonus Lanchester update for you all today. Pat and I had a long weekend that coincided for once and, unfortunately, the weather conspired against us making use of it on the Lanchester. Instead, our time was spent together in the garden where rain wouldn't be so much of an issue and that's now looking much better for the attention.

However, today the weather cleared for a short while, quite unexpectedly, while Pat was at work. So I decided to ignore my aching joints (when I say gardening, it was lots of clearing, fence building, digging holes, moving rubble... not just sticking some pansies in a nice flower bed while enjoying a glass of lemonade and the sunshine) and haul the Lanchester out of the garage so I could take a look at the wiring loom.

An hour later, I was still none the wiser. I think I've figured out which bit goes to the back of the instrument cluster since that's the only bit with the specific sort of bulb holders it takes, and which bit goes behind the dashboard itself since that's got a lot of connectors and branches compared to the rest. That still leaves me with several sections of loom that I don't actually know the location for. None of the loom is labelled, and it came with no instructions or diagram and while the Lanchester is very simple and the wiring for the most part original and unmolested, it's still quite a job to figure it out.

Anyway, all this is to say I decided to start unpicking the wiring that is in the car so I could compare it to the new loom and work out what goes where. First task, start disconnecting items from the bulkhead.


This took a while because I made myself a little diagram as I worked, marking the location and direction of the wires running to and from the voltage regulator/fuse bank and the white connector block below. About half of the wires go into the cabin, the other half seem to go down the outside of the steering column and out into the generator, starter motor, and front lights. After painstakingly unpicking and noting things I got to this point.




Let me tell you, I was glad of the carpet in the car, it was so much nicer to lay on than the boards and made it much easier to see what I was actually doing since I had a nice uniform colour background behind the work. Doing the carpet before the wiring might have seemed an odd choice, but I reaped the benefits of it today. The branch of wiring I removed went to the instrument cluster, across the bulkhead and out to the oil pressure switch and the coil negative. Some of it is original, some the new wiring a previous owner installed. All of the old wiring is quite brittle, the coating is quite fragile, and where new wire joins old the fittings generally fell off so it's less than ideal to leave it in place.


That left things looking like this.




It took a lot longer to dismantle than expected for the small amount of wiring removed. This is mostly because I'm taking care to label and record everything as it comes out, and to label anything that has to stay in the car for future reference. It's a slow job and my first foray into this. I've read other build threads and watched videos which has helped me keep things organised and lend some confidence. The other items that came out where the wiper motor and heater box, both of which can now be refurbished much easier. I couldn't tell where the wires were going for the wiper motor and heater box, they disappeared behind both and without removing them I hadn't realised I could have disconnected the wiring without removing either item. However, we were expecting to have to pull these items anyway for servicing and repair so it's not an issue. It also gives a bit more room under the dashboard to get to where the wiring needs to live.




For the wiper motor, two nuts need to be undone behind the dashboard inside the car, or in the case of our car just the one nut since one was missing and will need to be replaced. Happily the rubber shaped washers are both present and in good shape so we won't need to try and find those. The heater comes out by disconnecting the heater hoses at the bulkhead and then undoing three nuts on the engine side of the bulkhead. There's then one wire to disconnect before you can remove it from the car. We'd be interested to know what the markings refer to on the heater, simply out of curiosity.






The core on the heater leaks, and looks to have been doing so for some time. Pat and I have been warned that these heater boxes are sensitive to pressure, too much and they burst, so perhaps that's what happened here?


What came out of the heater wasn't too nice. It smelled like overheated coolant and had a slightly greasy feel, like mayonnaise, while also being a decidedly unpleasant colour. We're hoping we can get this flushed and repaired since it seems to be original to the car. We know more modern heaters exist, and this one could probably be retrofitted with something of that sort, but it would be nice to retain this one if we can for the novelty of it if nothing else.


Pat got home from work just as I was packing up and we had just enough time to get the Lanchester put away before it started raining again. The wiring feels a little less daunting now. I couldn't find any wiring underneath the car aside from the main battery cable and I also couldn't see a route it was taking from front to back so I'm hoping as I unpick more of the old wiring the path it actually takes will become clear, right now it's not very obvious.
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1390
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The joy of older cars is that they have simple wiring. A wiring diagram is readable, and understandable!, on just one page. My "modern" (17 years old) X-type has many, many pages in the workshop manual for all the wiring diagrams. Even then it is pretty hard to understand.

Nice to see a glass petrol filter mounted to the bulkhead. It could do with the a clean by the looks of it Very Happy
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wiring harness is thankfully very simple so even an electrical dullard like me can figure it out given enough time.

That little glass fuel filter bowl is a lot cleaner than it looks. The position of it means that the glass magnifies the contents so the tiniest speck of dirt looks like a massive rust flake or pile of sludge.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember this?


Had some time after work today to quickly hook it up to a power source to see what it does. The unit buzzes, which suggests the vibrator is vibrating, and the buzz quietens down as everything warms up. One tube I could see glowing through the case vent (I didn't take the case off for testing, I will for next time) so power is getting to at least one tube. However, with no aerial hooked up and not knowing what else does and doesn't work, that's as far as I got. No smoke, no horrible smells, nothing getting hot so it will probably be able to be revived. The selector doesn't illuminate either, but that could be a blown bulb or attention to the wiring required, we'll find out when I dig deeper into it.

I feel a bit more confident digging into it now at any rate.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vulgalour wrote:
Remember this?
Had some time after work today to quickly hook it up to a power source to see what it does. The unit buzzes, which suggests the vibrator is vibrating, and the buzz quietens down as everything warms up. One tube I could see glowing through the case vent (I didn't take the case off for testing, I will for next time) so power is getting to at least one tube. However, with no aerial hooked up and not knowing what else does and doesn't work, that's as far as I got. No smoke, no horrible smells, nothing getting hot so it will probably be able to be revived. The selector doesn't illuminate either, but that could be a blown bulb or attention to the wiring required, we'll find out when I dig deeper into it.

I feel a bit more confident digging into it now at any rate.


Have a look for any bulging electrolytic capacitors, possibly just replace them anyway, frail insulation on cables is common problem, and remember there are high voltages inside!

Dave
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately I don't have any service info on the CR32 but you can get some here: https://elektrotanya.com/ekco_cr32_receiver_sm.pdf/download.html

This will at least give you some clue as to what you are probing.

Although not the same number, I suspect the set described here is the same or very similar to CR32: http://nvhrbiblio.nl/schema/Ekco_CR72.pdf

There are some minor circuit differences but the schematics will be very similar and T4 will be for 6 volt instead of 12 volt.

If you are not getting it to work then please on no account attempt to adjust any of the trimmers or transformer cores.

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've actually got a full set of documentation for the Ekco, kindly provided by a radio enthusiast and restorer who has a working version. Replacing all the original wax capacitors is going to be one of the first things to do, along with any of the old wiring.

Speaking of old wiring, today the last of the engine bay wiring was removed. The repair work done in the past has muddied things a lot, we need to go through and work out what's actually been done so we can understand it a bit better. The best news is we've finally found the route the wiring takes to the back of the car. The reason we couldn't find the wiring before is that it is quite well hidden unless you know where you're looking. With all the new stuff out of the engine bay we could actually see where the original wiring disappears into a boxed section of the chassis and could then find it underneath the car where it reappears in an open section of the chassis and runs to the back of the car. This probably means the wiring branches off at the B pillar on the driver's side for the semaphore, goes up to the interior light (which has never worked while we've had the car) and down to the other semaphore. In theory, we should be able to attach string or similar to the passenger side semaphore wiring and the interior light wiring to pull the old wires through and then feed the new wires back in without disturbing the headlining at all.

We've also found more and more problems with the old wiring as we've removed it from the car. It really does seem like it's the failing wiring that took the car off the road more than anything else, clearly someone has gone to a lot of effort to keep things going, it just wasn't enough as the old wiring continued to disintegrate.
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 473
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the wiring all laid out. This gives you some idea of what we're dealing with. The black bits are the original wiring, all the colourful bits are what's been put in. I'll be making another diagram to understand this a bit easier, looking at it, the wiring diagram, and the new harness I can't really make this match up with what it's supposed to do yet. Some of the confusing bits make sense where new wire has been spliced in, but not all of it. Everything is labelled at least, and having it out of the car will make it easier to decypher. The wiring for the generator and starter motor are still in the engine bay, they weren't part of the loom and instead were two newer wires that were connected separately so it was easier to leave those in the car for now and we can remove them when the new harness goes in. Same for the wiring that goes up the column, that had been split at the steering box so it was easier to disconnect the bullet connectors, label it, and leave it in place for now. What's really confusing matters is the wiring from the voltage regulator to the white connector block that was attached to the bulkhead, that seems to have muddled up some of the connections so while everything did work (bar the brake lights on the pedal and the interior light) it doesn't seem to have been wired as per the original to achieve that.

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Minxy



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 272
Location: West Northants

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With reference to the heater....
My LD10 didn’t have’ and had never had’ a heater fitted. I got a Clayton unit as this was what I was told was the option in the day. Indeed it went strait into holes already pre-drilled three inches below the pipe outlet and seven inch centres ( two of ). It would appear yours had holes drilled to take that particular heater box!
A quick google shows heat exchangers available for drum type heater boxes.
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petelang



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 442
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know for sure but, just a word of warning. The wiring going up to the roof light and semaphores may be clipped to timber frame meaning you won't be able to pull it out with a draw cable attached. It was common for bodybuilders to tack it down in various places. Not sure if that is the case on an LD10 but better be prepared.

Are you making a new loom or having it made by Autosparks?

Peter
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