|
Author |
Message |
Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6313 Location: Derby
|
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:03 pm Post subject: Body snatchers |
|
|
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bentley-Mark-VI/174415096146?hash=item289bf32952:g:hQ4AAOSwaaZfTBAd
It is a sad fact but there are still people prepared to sacrifice a perfectly sound Mk V1 Bentley on the altar of special building. I don't have a problem with Bentley specials and wouldn't mind having a drive in one; they look like good fun. The difficulty for me is seeing a fine saloon body like this one being separated from it's presumably sound chassis.
Is mine a lone voice crying in the wilderness? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Peter_L
Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 2680 Location: New Brunswick. Canada.
|
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Body snatchers |
|
|
Ray White wrote: |
Is mine a lone voice crying in the wilderness? |
Perhaps not a lone voice, but freedom of choice must be allowed to have a place. An alternative would be to have a "Grade - Listed" register as there is with buildings/structures, but that is perhaps not desirable. If one goes down that road, where would it leave you and your beloved MG. You raise an excellent subject for discussion and opinions, this is mine... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6313 Location: Derby
|
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Body snatchers |
|
|
Peter_L wrote: | Ray White wrote: |
Is mine a lone voice crying in the wilderness? |
Perhaps not a lone voice, but freedom of choice must be allowed to have a place. An alternative would be to have a "Grade - Listed" register as there is with buildings/structures, but that is perhaps not desirable. If one goes down that road, where would it leave you and your beloved MG. You raise an excellent subject for discussion and opinions, this is mine... |
I am pretty certain that there is no chance of a "listed" status being applied to cars. There is not even any protection for Veteran cars (pre 1905).
As far as my MG is concerned; apart from being a matching numbers car, all the original panels are being retained and only the completely rotten tub is being replaced to the factory drawings. Despite numerous mechanical improvements there is no intention of creating a 'special".
As I have said, I am not against specials as such but it pains me to see a perfectly sound classic being ripped apart especially when there are other, less viable options.
I do not underestimate the quicksand of my argument not least that many Mk V1 Bentleys were re bodied by prestigious coach builders .
Just look at this magnificent styling by H.J. Mulliner. ...
Then there is the financial incentive with a LeMans type replica fetching far more than a tired standard MkV1.
That is why I am asking if I am alone in slating the body snatchers. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
|
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I do find it very surprising that these "vintage" specials make economic sense. OK the MkVI has its problems and they don't command silly money but nobody is going to be fooled by these specials with the their IFS hidden.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Peter_L
Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 2680 Location: New Brunswick. Canada.
|
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
peter scott wrote: | I do find it very surprising that these "vintage" specials make economic sense. OK the MkVI has its problems and they don't command silly money but nobody is going to be fooled by these specials with the their IFS hidden.
Peter |
With respect, you may be under estimating the number of "nobody's" that cannot balance sense and money.. Proverbs 21:20 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mikeC
Joined: 31 Jul 2009 Posts: 1775 Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire
|
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
peter scott wrote: | I do find it very surprising that these "vintage" specials make economic sense. OK the MkVI has its problems and they don't command silly money but nobody is going to be fooled by these specials with the their IFS hidden.
Peter |
But that's the trouble: it does make economic sense. A complete special can be built up for around the same cost as restoring an original body, and the resultant car has a market value around three times that of the original car. The same applies to Austin Sevens, where a so-called Ulster replica can be built for the same sort of money that a Ruby restoration will cost, and the resulting special commands a grossly inflated value. It's a case of supply and demand - there are more people looking for a sporting car - even in special form - than there are for the original saloon.
And I'm with Ray on this one: why destroy a complete original car (Bentley or Austin) when there are plenty of bodyless 'kits' which could be used? _________________ in the garage: 1938 Talbot Ten Airline
Recently departed: 1953 Lancia Appia, 1931 Austin Seven, 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MikeEdwards
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 2470 Location: South Cheshire
|
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think it's a real pity that this is still going on, so you're not alone Ray, no.
I am surprised, given how much stuff was lost decades ago to special builders, that anyone is still doing it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh
|
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
People have mental open spaces about open cars but assuming that continues then it would make much more sense to convert MkVI saloons into MkVI DHCs.
The DHC versions of Jaguar MkVs command silly prices relative to their saloon stablemates and a "coachbuilt" MkVI DHC would be a much more honest vehicle than a pretend Cricklewood. For sure there are plenty of proper coachbuilt MkVI DHCs around but I think much of the standard steel saloon rear end could be adapted. The rear of the Jaguar DHC uses much of the saloon metalwaork.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/11095/lot/169/
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6313 Location: Derby
|
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Good to be reassured that I am not alone. I think it is the fact that in 2020 it is still going on.
Back in my student days a friend and I thought up a plan to convert Morris Minor saloons into convertibles. It was going to be called "chop top Minors!"
I still shudder to think about it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans
|
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You seem to have overlooked the * in this thread. Many Mk VIs were turned into Le Mans replicas, but still are a Mk VI on the V5. These cars sould, if built after 1998, have passed the SVA or more recently the IVA. If the DVLA start to get antsy they could demand a photo of the car when renewing the road fund licence, and sure as hell a Le Mans Bentley does not look quite like a Mk VI. Result? V5 withdrawn until IVA passed, then it becomes a 2020 car with road tax and an MOT after three years. I know this is not in prospect, but one never knows. How many cars are out there, of all makes, whcih could suffer as a result? An Aston DB4 converted to a DB4 Zagato, with 4" chopped out of the chassis? The list goes on and on.
(edited RJ - removed, not sure we can get away with that phrase nowadays, even if partially obscured) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6313 Location: Derby
|
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Who is to know when the car was chopped up?
There are enough issues connected with specials without big brother getting in the passenger seat.! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
alanb
Joined: 10 Sep 2012 Posts: 516 Location: Berkshire.
|
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I may be wrong, but as I understand it the DVLA’s criteria for maintaining historic vehicle status is the points system, where the vehicle has a separate chassis the body has no points value as the rule states 5 points for an unmodified chassis or monocoque body, then goes on to adds points for original engine and running gear.
I often fume when I read adds for hot rods that say “historic vehicle MOT & tax exempt, jag suspension rover V8 engine auto gearbox bespoke chassis etc”, when there are clubs for historic cars struggling to retain original registrations and historic status for genuine vehicles.
I have no problem with creating a special from vehicle where the body is badly damaged and beyond salvage, or just in such poor conditions it’s not worth saving that at least keeps another old car on the road, but to dismantle a perfectly good old car just to rob it’s chassis I find rather sad. _________________ old tourer
Morris 8 two seater |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6313 Location: Derby
|
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Perhaps someone will be able to use the body on another MkV1 chassis. It is rare to find one of these cars that hasn't succumbed to rust.
Hopefully this one will find an appreciative new owner. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22446 Location: UK
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6313 Location: Derby
|
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I couldn't agree more, Rick. There are plenty of Riley and Austin seven specials if you want one; even buy one of the numerous unfinished projects and do it to your own design. There is no need to deplete further the small number of original cars - especially if it means sacrificing a sound body.
I have only seen one MkV1 Special deserving of the name and that was a Le Mans replica which was a genuine copy and would have cost a fortune to create. It was being sold by Rolls Royce/ Bentley agents in Sunningdale and they were pretty fussy about their stock. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|