classic car forum header
Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
How To Register     Posting Photographs     Privacy Policy     F/book facebook.com/oldclassiccar

First experiences of PAS?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Classic & Vintage Cars, Lorries, Vans, Motorcycles etc - General Chat
Author Message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21548
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:31 am    Post subject: First experiences of PAS? Reply with quote

Driving along yesterday on roads I used to traverse in old cars, but this time behind the wheel of the modern, my mind wandered back to when I first encountered power steering in any car I owned. I think for me it must have been the XJ12L S1, which was notorious for having verrrrry light steering. Road testers often criticised it but I always felt that it suited the wafty nature of the XJ. Same with the P5B that I had some years later.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1177
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long ago was that Rick? Nineties?

Although I had experienced PAS in modern cars owned by friends or family, PAS in a car I owned only came in when I bought a Citroen CX Pallas in 1998. That had the curious, but handy, feature that the when the engine was running the front wheels would get to the straight position if you let loose of the steering wheel. So if you see a parked CX with the front wheels turned you know there is something wrong with the Diravi!
_________________
a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Keith D



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 1006
Location: Upper Swan, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first experience of power steering was in a Ford Falcon rental car when I was working in the mines in the north-west of Western Australia. Probably in the mid eighties. Long wide open roads with very little traffic. I turned sharply out of the driveway from Karratha airport in my newly acquired rental, onto the main road towards Dampier. I probably had my foot down a bit hard, because I almost rolled the dammed car! It took me about a kilometre before I got the car straight again and on track.

Traditionally the big three cars in Australia (Ford, Holden and Chrysler) had heavy steering, especially at slow speeds in heavy traffic. When power steering arrived it was so light that one had no feel of the road at all and one could turn the vehicle onto full lock when stationary with absolutely no effort. After that experience, I enjoyed power steering, especially when parking.

Keith
_________________
1926 Chrysler 60 tourer
1932 Austin Seven RN long wheelbase box sedan
1950 Austin A40 tourer
1999 BMW Z3
Its weird being the same age as old people.
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21548
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

badhuis wrote:
How long ago was that Rick? Nineties?

Although I had experienced PAS in modern cars owned by friends or family, PAS in a car I owned only came in when I bought a Citroen CX Pallas in 1998. That had the curious, but handy, feature that the when the engine was running the front wheels would get to the straight position if you let loose of the steering wheel. So if you see a parked CX with the front wheels turned you know there is something wrong with the Diravi!


Yes I owned the XJ12L in the mid-1990s (it was a 1972 car). My first drive of a PAS-equipped car was probably dad's 900 Turbo, which I charged around one or two fields in before taking a driving test.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1457
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I came across PAS professionally [as in, hairy-harrised bus driving]....back in the early 1970's....when, on a Sunday, my LT route got issued with Routemasters instead of RTs..Quite a revelation really a nice relaxing day driving around London.
It was also my first real contact with a proper automatic gearbox.

The worst PAS I came across in the early days was a PAS conversion to an armstrong steering bus....Basically a PAS system fixed onto the steering wheel.
Never really knew where the front wheels were pointing until they got there.

I didn't really come across PAS in my own car/vehicle until the late 1990's...[I never bought/obtained/acquired any new vehicles..all would really be over 10 years old at that time of my life]...with a Volvo 740. But, I regularly tasted PAS on heavy vehicles throughout...from the 1970s. I also experienced favourby similar heavies without PAS....

The biggest let-down by PAS I came across, was the PAS fitted by Land Rover to the [military] Defenders.
Far too light, at all speeds...being as light at 5mph as it was at 70 mph.
The military had an issue with these particular land rovers which had a tendency to fall over.
many..who ought to have known better, blamed the placement of the spare wheel on the vehicle side [which was rubbish]...
The reality was, blame could be squarely laid at the door of the over-light power steering.
This allowed a driver to steer far too abruptly for the Land Rover chassis, etc, to cope. Plus, those Defenders could be quite fast vehicles...couple the two together, and we have a recipe for vehicles turning over.
Rolling over isn't something it's predecessor Defender, without power steering, was noted for.
Eventually,as an accredited SME, my thoughts were accepted.....Land Rover didn't do anything about it though. Didn't expect them to, either.

My Mustang has power steering. A factory option....rather than one of the aftermarket kits.

It is very light too...far too light for my comfort.

A trait that is well acknowledged amongst enthusiasts...many of who remove it. This involves making some changes underneath..something a lot of folk forget....one simply cannot just unbolt the system...although taking the pump belt off for a short period of time probaby does little in the way of real harm.
I am used to it now....the very American driving technique of using but one finger to steer...I can see how it developed!
Loads of turns, lock to lock though..but not as many as the pure manual steering cars had.

When I jump into the Dellow, which has but one turn lock to lock [slightly less, actually]....is like gong from the sublime to the gor-blimey.
But, I find the Mustang a pleasant car to drive around....especially for an older person who has become heartily tired of the [ego driven?] need for changing gear all the time.

My daily 4trak has power steering....it has quite broad tyres, so the help is appreciated when parking....but..the steering wheel is nice and thick, so i don't fear a PAS failure. {Something lacking in the first of the Leyland National buses..]
My 'orrid, made-this-century Suzuki Grand Vitara....[mk1] 'horrid simply because it wa made this centruty..my view of all vehicles made this century, has PAS...which leaked profusely.....I worked out it was down the the idea of running a hard hydraulic return line in a loop for cooling purposes...the tube bore was just too small for the volume of fluid involved, despite being the return pipe...so I bypassed it and, lo! No more leaks.

I'm not sure about this prevalence of electric PAS?
Even on very small cars.

It appears to be spreading the the old car world as well.....with MGBs now having a kit to retro fit electric PAS......surely that destroys the whole character of the car and the way it drives...simply because today's drivers have become steering wimps? My solution would be, if PAS was being considered for an MGB......then sell the MGB and buy a Mazda MX...
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2003
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine was in an Audi 90 that I went to test drive at a local car supermarket. I discovered how much easier it was to steer than my then-current Audi coupe when I almost stuck it up a roundabout because I put too much effort in.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6438
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first car that I owned with PAS was a Citroen BX and I remember being amazed at the extremely high force that was required to steer the car when I rolled it down a hill with the engine switched off.

The hydraulics in the Citroen were designed for progressive failure. The first to be dropped was the suspension then the PAS and lastly the brakes. That car didn't have AC so I don't know if that would have assumed first place in the list.

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 litre saloon


Last edited by peter scott on Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
alanb



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 507
Location: Berkshire.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first car to have power steering was also a Citroen BX in 1990 as a company car, my previous car was a Vauxhall cavalier without pas and with about 4 turns lock to lock. The Citroen was delivered on a Friday afternoon in March and my first drive was in the rush hour traffic on the way home, the steering was very light and with one and a half turns lock to lock very direct, for the first few miles I had great difficulty in keeping it in a straight line as I was constantly over steering and over compensating, the power brakes also only had about half an inch travel before locking the wheels, the people following me must have thought it was the first time Id ever driven a car, with me zig zagging down the road and doing emergency stops when I only intended to slow down.
_________________
old tourer


Morris 8 two seater
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
V8 Nutter



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 550

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first car I owned with power steering was a 1954 Oldsmobile Rocket 88, which I bought in the mid sixties. It was also the first car I owned with an automatic gearbox, power brakes, a good heater and radio.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1394
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My daughter, now age 45, had her first car with power steering 10 years ago. I warned her to be careful and explained that the input was far less than she was used to. she drove away from the garage where she had purchased her Honda Jazz, turned the wheel, mounted the pavement and passed between the lamp post and the wall, stopped the car still on the pavement and sat there shocked. She then drove home. It took her five years to relate the story though!

My first experience, from memory was a W123 Mercedes in 1982. It was not too assisted, and we got along fine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1475
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if the ice cream van I drove for a while in 2001 (?) had PAS or not, it was based on an '89 Transit and was a far nicer driving vehicle than the ratty old Fiesta of similar vintage I was using at the time. Possibly because it had been maintained properly since it was new...

First time I definitely came across PAS was when I became a bus driver for a spell in 2004. I remember that it didn't work terribly well on a lot of the buses at the local depot which only got the cast off vehicles from more prosperous areas of Britain, one of many reasons no driver stays there for very long!

First car I owned with PAS was the Corsa that I've had for about 7 years now, that works pretty well and hasn't given any issues though it's geting heavy now compared with newer vehicles, probably heavier than when I first had it but then you don't notice these things slowly deteriorating, do you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kevin2306



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1348
Location: nr Llangollen, north wales

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine was driving my dads wolseley 6110 when I was about 14ish (on private farm tracks).
I still get to drive the same car some 40 plus years later.
My Singer is non PAS and is superb and direct, the Wolseley however is very vague and boat like, spoils the driving experience to be honest. I have suggested to my Dad that we have a good look over the steering this winter as I have a feeling there is a little too much wear somewhere.

Kev
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3610
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine was in the 80's when a mate of mine bought his first car; against the recommendations from the "grown ups" who advised him to get a small simple car, he bought an old Rover SD1.
I remember how we delighted in sitting in the living room type SD1 seats, relaxing with the auto transmission (another first for me) and being able to steer with only a finger!
This pleasure came to an abrupt end after my mate decided to "service" the car. Following Rovers servicing recommendations, he topped the power steering fluid up...with brake fluid Confused , which quickly destroyed the seals.
The steering went from some being effortless to something Geoff Capes would struggle with... A painful lesson that not all hydraulic fluids are the same.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4002
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went into Halfords this week thinking I would get some ATF for the P38 (which seems to have sprung a leak) and I was confronted with three different types. Shocked Which one do I need?

The kindly assistant popped my registration number into the computer and hey presto I needed D11.



Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4277
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
The last non-assisted vehicle I drove was a Renault 11 which had quite heavy steering particularly for the slighter built of my pupils.
But fitting blockier treaded tyres on the front made it easier, and also helped when towing the caravan off farmers' fields type camp sites.

I notice that nobody has mentioned specifically any experience of cars with progressive PAS, the type which gives full assistance at low speed and the assistance gets less as the speed increases.
What are/were they like?
_________________
Bristols should always come in pairs.

Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Classic & Vintage Cars, Lorries, Vans, Motorcycles etc - General Chat All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum T&C


php BB powered © php BB Grp.