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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1429
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

old iron wrote:
I know this sounds bonkers but my Humber 14/40 suffered problems as you describe, Transpired the timing was out fully 180 degrees!!


Just what I was trying - badly - to say myself!
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3117
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a silly suggestion but its something we have checked with the distributor position. You cant actually rotate this one or position it round 180 degrees. It can only fit on the pin in one position and the air pipe is positioned facing towards the bulkhead. We have tried nudging the distributor round at tiny degree changes but it still makes no difference.

With our other Commer rotating the distributor fractionally really made huge differences when we were setting the timing. On this one nothing happens.

One thing I will say and its come from a few suggestions from friends is to re-check the spark. We have done that and yes there is a spark at the plugs but it is very weak and not blueish in colour. I am beginning to wonder if we should change the coil, it suggests the coil is not strong enough?
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1937 Ford 7w
1937 Hillman 80
1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
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Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21710
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random musings:

1. I had an odd problem with the blue Volvo 121 I ran years ago, every now and then it'd coast to a halt. The spring behind the centre contact in the dizzy cap was a bit weak, and over time the contact would slowly retreat into the cap, losing connection to the centre of the rotor arm. I'd have to remove the cap, gently pull it down again slightly, re-fit and it'd fire straight up again and be ok for another couple of weeks.

2. There's often a lead under the base plate in the dizzy, only visible if you unscrew it and peer beneath, is that in good order? I used to have a terrible misfire on one of mine and it was that lead breaking up in the end that was causing my headaches.

3. Could wear on the cam be preventing the inlet valves from opening sufficiently, preventing a sufficient mixture of fuel from entering the cylinders? Clutching at straws a bit here.

4. If it's kicking back, it does sound like timing (or a weak starter/battery/connection). Have you gone back to square one to establish tdc on no.1 and check the HT leads and order from there? Ie not by using markings anywhere, but establishing when the piston is at the top of its travel - if that's possible?

RJ
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Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6543
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this helps. It's for the Superpoise. You no doubt have this or something similar but if not it might be worth following the procedure here.



It is possible that your skew gear is not aligned as above with your 1 and 6 at TDC.

Peter

p.s. The above is for the OHV Superpoise. The side valve is different and quotes 6 degrees before TDC. When you are checking for the points just opening at TDC make sure it's TDC on the compression stroke i.e both valves closed (not TDC on the exhaust stroke).
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old iron



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lowdrag wrote:
old iron wrote:
I know this sounds bonkers but my Humber 14/40 suffered problems as you describe, Transpired the timing was out fully 180 degrees!!


Just what I was trying - badly - to say myself!


It certainly sounds more and more like the problem. Although a very weak spark at the plugs could be that ignition coil breaking down. Perhaps the weak spark is almost non existent when under compression. It will be interesting to know of the problem once resolved.

My own non start/ very difficult start with the same symptoms was indeed stale petrol. Replaced and as dear old Tommy would say it started easily,
‘just like that’! Very Happy
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alanb



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 514
Location: Berkshire.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a problem with my Morris 8 not starting it had a very weak spark at the plugs it turned out to be the distributor not earthing to the engine, adding an earth wire from the base plate screw on the distributor to a good earth point cured the problem
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4176
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alanb wrote:
I had a problem with my Morris 8 not starting it had a very weak spark at the plugs it turned out to be the distributor not earthing to the engine, adding an earth wire from the base plate screw on the distributor to a good earth point cured the problem


I did that with my '26 Dodge. I think it had been a problem for years prior to my ownership.
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3117
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the suggestions Gents.

I have been noting them so at the weekend we can start checking some of them off.

Will keep you all posted.
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1937 Ford 7w
1937 Hillman 80
1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1429
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever you find, a most puzzling case indeed, but probably when you find and report the reason for your problem we will all kick ourselves heartily for not having thought of it before!
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6543
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Non Starter... Reply with quote

Rootes75 wrote:


Start her and she turns over lots of times before spluttering and not firing properly. Give her full choke and this time she does fire but then immediately cuts out. Give her any throttle and same result.



It has been a long saga and we may be losing sight of Rootes' initial description in suggesting that the spark is occurring on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke. I don't think it would run at all if that were the case and it sounds as if it was running if only fleetingly.

Peter
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3117
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Saga does continue..

We fitted a new coil to the Commer and connected up the battery, we thought first step to check for a spark. We pushed the starter and she turned over a few times and again just a very small spark.

The main difference was that the battery drained very quickly and she ran out of omph as they say and all you could hear is the solenoid clicking. We connected the charger and let the battery sit for a few hours charging. In the meantime I took the charged battery from the other Commer and the same thing happened, no power and just the solenoid clicking.

We then took the starter off to give it a good inspection and clean, thats now the next job.
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1937 Ford 7w
1937 Hillman 80
1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3117
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I ordered a new coil. We fitted that and we gave the starter a good clean down and refitted it.

Pressed the starter button and again the engine turns but doesnt fire. We checked the spark at the plugs and its still small and orange like.

Then, upon trying it again the starter stopped and you could only hear the solenoid clicking. We tried a couple times and the same, just clicking. We used the starting handle to give her a few rotatios but to our surprise she was seized solid!!

We checked the starter by loosening off the fixing bolts and it was seized in engaged. With some shock hitting on the starter body she freed off. We turned the engine again by hand and she was free again.

So, starter motor issue?
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1937 Ford 7w
1937 Hillman 80
1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
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V8 Nutter



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weak orange spark was always said to be a sign of a faulty condenser
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old iron



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is almost certainly a missing tooth or very damaged tooth either on the starter motor bendix or the starter ring that is a causing the jamming up.
This has nothing to do with the non starting issue though.
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3117
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

V8 Nutter wrote:
Weak orange spark was always said to be a sign of a faulty condenser


The condenser was newly fitted by a previous owner, we did check the spark at the contacts and that too was not great.

I think it may be wise to fit a new condenser, they arent expensive and then we know its new.
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1937 Ford 7w
1937 Hillman 80
1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
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