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Ford V8 Pilot, Again......or, Look What I Found
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Sid



Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 75
Location: From whence cometh the mighty Lagonda

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:50 pm    Post subject: Ford V8 Pilot, Again......or, Look What I Found Reply with quote

During the mini heatwave we experienced a few weeks ago, I was driving the Pilot locally and got caught at some roadworks where the lights took an age to change to green.
She started to get very hot, and eventually the lights changed and I managed the three quarters of a mile home, by which time she was well and truly overheating.
So the next day I started her up and backed out of the garage, filled her up with water, and almost immediately it started to boil. It began to run rough and didn't have enough oomph to get back up the very small incline back into the garage and I suspected a blown head gasket.
Just for the purpose, real life intervened and I haven't had a chance to get back in the garage to take the heads off until today. To my surprise, despite having rummaged around under the bonnet many times in the four and a bit months that I've owned it, I discovered a missing head stud. Right at the back next to number 8 cylinder, hidden under about half a dozen pipes and tubes.
So off came the head, and although the gasket looks intact, the surface of the head near the missing stud has developed a case of metal acne, little pimples raised above the surface.
Oh and needless to say the missing stud has been broken off level with the block!
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1541
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My sympathies....but , all is not lost?
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4215
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has to be one of the back ones or you are not suffering enough. Rolling Eyes
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Sid



Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 75
Location: From whence cometh the mighty Lagonda

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I certainly know how to enjoy myself Neutral
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 3150
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its all part of the fun! Its good you found the fault.
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Sid



Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 75
Location: From whence cometh the mighty Lagonda

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've now tried to drill out the stud in order to use a stud extractor. Unfortunately, cobalt and titanium drills have merely scratched it.
I've also soaked it in a ATF/acetone mixture, but as there is no way of getting a purchase on it I'm kind of stuck. I'm loathe to put the head back on as it is, despite the fact that it was running ok before the overheat, and presumably was when the last owner had it, but I can't think of any alternative. Sad
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4215
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an alternative, Sid, but you are not going to like it. If it were mine I would get the engine out. That would give you more options.
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a welder (tig would be best) you could try the following, it worked on my Cowley.
Find a steel washer the diameter of the stud.
Place it over the snapped off stud.
Weld the stud to the washer.
Weld a suitable nut, bolt or any lump of steel on top of the washer.
Grip and unscrew. The heat should help to loosen it.
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Sid



Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 75
Location: From whence cometh the mighty Lagonda

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
There is an alternative, Sid, but you are not going to like it. If it were mine I would get the engine out. That would give you more options.

That's my absolute last option, but getting closer.

Miken wrote:
If you have a welder (tig would be best) you could try the following, it worked on my Cowley.
Find a steel washer the diameter of the stud.
Place it over the snapped off stud.
Weld the stud to the washer.
Weld a suitable nut, bolt or any lump of steel on top of the washer.
Grip and unscrew. The heat should help to loosen it.

I could try this if I can find someone with a TIG
Thanks for the suggestions
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4215
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike's tip is likely to work for the stud but you need to find out if the surfaces are flat. If they are not then they will need machining. If they are flat then the overheating cause could be elsewhere.

The radiator may be blocked as could the water jacket. Sometimes it is something simple like a thermostat or even a slipping fan belt.

I hope you get to the bottom of the problem.
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 757
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sid wrote:
I've now tried to drill out the stud in order to use a stud extractor. Unfortunately, cobalt and titanium drills have merely scratched it.
I've also soaked it in an ATF/acetone mixture, but as there is no way of getting a purchase on it I'm kind of stuck. I'm loathe to put the head back on as it is, despite the fact that it was running ok before the overheat, and presumably was when the last owner had it, but I can't think of any alternative. Sad

Sid
Head studs on early V8s aren't usually particularly high grade. Maybe you need a better drill bit?
Start with a 1/16th or 1/8th & work up from there. I wonder if a left-handed bit would work.
Once most of it is out, re-tap it.
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Sid



Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 75
Location: From whence cometh the mighty Lagonda

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MVPeters wrote:

Sid
Head studs on early V8s aren't usually particularly high grade. Maybe you need a better drill bit?
Start with a 1/16th or 1/8th & work up from there. I wonder if a left-handed bit would work.
Once most of it is out, re-tap it.

Mike
I must say I was surprised how hard these ones are. I've only used brand new bits which literally scratched the surface. And they weren't cheap Chinese knock offs either.
Ray
I've got the rad out and have checked for blockages and leaks. The waterways in the block look clear, thermostats aren't fitted, it's an impeller assisted thermo-syphon system.
A previous owner has fitted an electric fan, and the original one normally fitted to the dynamo is missing because they also fitted a dynamator (I think that's what they're called) and that doesn't have a fan fitted.
What I hope to do is relocate the electric fan to the bottom of the rad and get an additional fan fitted to the dynomator.
There are no problems, only solutions, as they say.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 4215
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really can't get it out there are mobile EDM services who will remove your broken stud for relatively little money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining
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Sid



Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 75
Location: From whence cometh the mighty Lagonda

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ray I'll look into that
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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2613
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adapting one of these, some 40 years back, enabled my Dad and I to drill out some broken head bolts..
Even a modest drill press can deliver much more pressure and accuracy than a hand held drill.
Today there is a whole range of well priced portable drill presses.
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