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1990s cars - too soon?
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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1443
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UNESCO decided that to call anything "collectible" it had to be 30 years old, a definition that was accepted in many european countries to define a classic car. So If the powers that be accept that anything from 1991 is collectible, that's fine with me. I admit that the decline in my interest in anything modern coincided with that date and that my daily transport has been. to say the least, boring since and the last car I "loved" was my E30 Sport from 1986



Such a lovely straight-six engine.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21779
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This V8 XJR was a hoot too, only sold a few years ago because a) I wasn't using it often and b) the local cat insisted on sliding down it with its muddy feet, which was deeply upsetting and sadly I don't own a large catapult.

Obviously I only sold it after spending having all the usual potential problem areas addressed as this was meant to be a long-term keeper so I wanted everything "right", such as timing chain tensioners, valley pipes beneath the supercharger etc etc.



RJ
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1498
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Each to their own but I'm afraid 90's cars hold little interest for me. Once electronic ignition systems became the norm and carburetters had been ousted by complex fuel injection systems and a car could fail an MOT for all sorts of nonsense with little or no bearing on road safety I was out - never mind the 90's, I haven't much time for most 80's cars!

It's worth pointing out, however, that for those who are interested in such things there are several forums online that focus on this era. I can't give you names or links but for once Google is your friend... Laughing
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 756
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the cut-off point were "anything-that-does-not-need-a-computer-to-keep-running", where does that put us?
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1541
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MVPeters wrote:
If the cut-off point were "anything-that-does-not-need-a-computer-to-keep-running", where does that put us?


That might certainly put us into the 1990's for certain vehicles, anyway?

Someone mentioned fuel injection? Simply another way to skin a cat? [Not that I'd skin any cats.... a few small children, maybe, but not a cat]

I once had an F-plate [87 IIRC?} Volvo 740 estate.[Estate being most appropriate title, it was so large].
It had a proper ''Volvo'' engine [not a Renault buy-in jobbie]...of 2 litres.
But it had Bosche K-Jetronic fuel injection.
This worked fine, without electrical input, but had to be scrubbed out annually at least, which was a mucky job. [no petrol in the intake runners to clean the crankcase oil off]
Other similar looking Volvo 740s had Bosche L-Jetronic FI, which did have electrical control of the injection system.
So, where does one stand with those?

Skoda introduced their first FWD car [The Favorit] which could be found with a carb, or simple single point fuel injection. That was an early 1990's product, but they were still selling the Rapid rear engine coupe...which could be had with both a carb, or fuel injection [135 RSC]. I once owned a Rapid registered in 1992! [Probably stood in storage for a year or two however]

In the end, it's down to what you like really?

I have particular affection for my scratty Daihatsu 4Trak. It's a 1994 model, yet has no concessions to modernity whatsoever.
Daihatsu never went as far as developing common rail , electronically-controlled diesel fuel injection for their big 2.8 litre 4 pot diesels. Indeed, they were still selling the old school smokers into this century, just.

Mercedes Bends had fuel injection at a vey early age....

I find electronic ignition on our old petrol engines is a blessing. Helps with starting no end!
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3665
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electronic ignition or "Transistor assist " as its better described,has been standard on some quite mundane cars since the 1960's...

I suspect what most folks sentiment is; that in their head when one couldn't tinker with a vehicle with just basic tools like spanners and screwdrivers, the vehicles we not as interesting? But that shouldn't be a reason to discourage a teenager who today fixes their car with a computer, but has the interest in cars and maybe later on will look a something older?

I used to get my 1939 M8 SE MOT''d at a local garage that had a good reputation for tuning race & rally Subaru WRX's , when ever the M8 was in their workshop it would have all the young mechanics looking at it, I recall one of them being impressed that it had 17" rims! So lets give the younger generations some respect in what they know abut newer vehicles, embrace them and share our enthusiasm for older vehicles, maintaining the long term interest in all vehicles.

Dave
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 304
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the 1980s was all about embracing new technology to work alongside the old, the 90s was all about eliminating as much of the old mechanical tech in favour of electronic as possible.

The result was cars that were generally more reliable, better built, easier to live with, and less rust prone. Cars that you didn't get attached to because you didn't have to nurse them, or work around their own particular foibles. It was the dawn of the car as an appliance.

90s cars were the first generation of vehicles that just seemed to hang around forever and they're only now starting to really disappear from regular view, 30 years on. Keeping a 90s car in good health now is proving to be quite a challenge, parts availability is the biggest issue since there's so many variations across so many models and what cars do remain aren't of a high enough value or number that the aftermarket is catering to them as well as some older models.

We're just at that magic point where 90s cars are scarce enough and the age of those who experienced them first will be getting nostalgic enough, that a revival is about due. The thing that will likely prevent it happening in the same way as cars of the 80s is that the 90s were not a glamourous era for most models so we'll probably see a similar landscape to what cars are in preservation and desired from the 70s.

Most recently my experience of this would be owning a Xantia and a BX. Of the two, the Xantia is the quantifiably better machine, fit and finish is vastly superior, it was quieter and more refined, much less temperamental a machine. The BX needed much more regular attention, had much greater rust problems and was much less refined, especially at motorway speeds. The Xantia was fantastic at being a car and while I did like it very much, the BX was more fun to own. It doesn't really make much sense, but then when does enthusiast car ownership ever make sense? Getting in the BX always felt like an event, like something special, while getting the Xantia just felt like getting in a car to do a job.
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1198
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Vulgalour!
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47p2



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2001
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1997 Volvo 850 managed to slip into the 'Classic Insurance' band this year for the first time, odd really as my 1998 Jaguar XJ308 was on Classic insurance 8 years ago. I've been told desirability, scarcity, and how many left are the biggest factors in deciding if a car should be insured as a classic long before age is taken into account.


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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1198
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm Mr Rover can I ask why you do not drive a Rover 75 Estate instead of the Volvo?
Your decision of course but your forum name is Rover related and I would expect something like that when your footer is
ROVER
One of Britain's Fine Cars

Rover 75 Estate - I wanted one four years ago but got a Jaguar X Estate instead. Was not an easy choice.
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47p2



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
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Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

badhuis

The user name and signature are from when I had a 1947 Rover. I'm sure if you search the forum there will be many threads with pictures although photobucket may have obscured them

I've already owned a few cars from the Rover stable, namely the P2, 820 Coupe, P5B, and a couple of close cousin Range Rovers, for me the P5B was the last of the quality built Rover cars and it was downhill from then on.

When discussing the Rover 75 with the mechanics at my MOT station I was told of the many many faults with the model and it put me off ownership for life.

Why the Volvo 850?
It's a comfortable reliable car capable of high mileages without too many problems. They aren't prone to rusting out, genuine spare parts are readily available direct from Volvo, plenty of owners online who are happy to give advice should a problem occur.

The 850 I have is one of the few unmolested original 850s left. It was one family owned until a couple of years ago when it was sold the the chap I bought it from. It has done 59900 miles to date and been garaged all its life except for the 9 months the previous owner had the car.








The underside of the 850 is completely original and rust free, all I have done is give it a wash and paint the original exhaust




The interior is as new, it even has a new 90's car aroma



The paintwork is all original and has a deep lustre when the light hits it

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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1443
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was trying to think when the first affordable fuel-injected car appeared on the market and all I can think of - no pretense it was the first of course - was the GTi Golf in 1975. But the 300SL was injected and was I think the first in 1954 . So if we are going to consider cars before 1954 then it is petrol only, because diesel cars existed prewar. We are somewhat narrowing our choices! I did love my 1983 SRi though.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1541
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with 47p2,in respect of the Rover 75 range, when compared to the Volvo 850.

The inside space of the 850 isn't that far adrift from teat of my once- cherished{!} 740 estate. In other words, doesn't feel cramped or claustrophobic!

Unlike the interior of the Rover 75 range?

In which I felt decidedly squeezed!

Despite the good qualities of the Rover 75 range, I got the impression that the designers had become confused with the design premis of the old Mini? IE, big on the outside, small on the inside?

I'm not referring to load carrying capacity [volume?] of the estate, but of the day to day driving impressions.

The 740 to 850 range from Volvo addressed [in my view as a user] the shortcomings about use of inside space that the 140-240 Volvo mainstays suffered from. That of the outside being a lot larger than the inside space would indicate? Wasted space in terms of overall size.
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a smart 850, I've maintained for a while that the best used cars in terms of safety/usability/reliability are those of the late 1990s - just enough tech to keep them going without getting silly, and still fixable without resorting to dealers too often. We had two V70s, a Mk1 and a Mk2, both very good cars, I also ran W124 Merc estates for years and was impressed with them also. I'd happily run a good example of either in future.

RJ
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Da Tow'd



Joined: 16 Jun 2010
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Location: Bella Coma British Columbia Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have to agree with 47p2 on the 850.
We have a mirror copy except for our leather seats and we shift with the right hand.
A classic in my book
Hank
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