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Freeing a seized engine
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21021
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the sound of the gently gently approach with the diesel, some good advice here - thanks all!

R
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Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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Uncle Joe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that I'm going to upset some people with this comment, but you will find that using atf instead of diesel is a way better alternative. And it can be proved.... Shocked
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pigtin



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1882
Location: Herne Bay

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The engine I have in the 10/4 at the moment had to be recovered from a ditch: I removed the crankshaft, soaked the bores with diesel and then treated it to a couple of tons pressure from a mandril press.

You may be interested in an alternative method used on motorcycle engines:
A thick plate and a gasket are made to bolt over the cylinder, the plate has a grease nipple fitted and (having first filled the cylinder to the top with grease or oil) a grease gun is used to apply immense pressure to the piston by pumping to fill the remaining space.

It might not be quite so easy with four cylinders but it certainly works with one at a time.

Best of luck... Don.
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Just hook up to the back end hydraulics of a tractor, see another reason for a tractor! hehe Laughing

Cheers

Dave
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Would electrolysis work, although i supose it may eat into no ferous bearings/components.

You could soon set it up with an arc welder though! Laughing

Cheers

Dave
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Uncle Joe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In late 1976, the mechanics where I worked pulled a breakdown truck out of a field where it had stood since the late '50's with a blown head gasket. It had been there so long, a tree had managed to grow between the cabn and the bed!

They pulled it into the workshop, removed the head, and found that the 6-cylinder was totally seized from rust. One of the older mechs. drained the engine oil, then filled the bores with ATF. Consienciously, he topped up the bores every day. When the parts for it arrived a few weeks later, he put new oil in, fitted batteries, and spun the engine on the starter....

That motor was still running the last time I saw it, in 1990, without a rebuild, believe it or not!
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3491
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years ago I had an old petrol driven cement mixer which lived outside, it used to burn a bit of oil and the exhaust had a tinge of blue in it. For some reason I took the spark plug out, must have got distracted and didn't realise until about 6 months later when I went to use the mixer! Embarassed the first thing I had to do was drain the cylinder of rain water! and found the engine was seized (surprise surprise!), anyway I filled the cylinder with paraffin, left it for a week and with a bit of persuasion it turned over, drained the oil & petrol put fresh of both in and the engine ( a Villers) fired up no problem. The strange thing was that from that day on it ceased to burn oil ,the blue tinge from the exhaust had gone and it started far better! I can only assume that in some crude way the bore had become de-glazed.

Just remembered Buzzy now owns that little engine, have you got it running yet? Wink


Dave
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

You might be surprised to hear that I gave that engine to a friend up north, he planned to have it running very soon after I gave it to him a month or two back, then it was to be a pressant for his daughter to get her interested in engines. Thought that was a great cause!

Very Happy

Cheers

Dave
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pigtin



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1882
Location: Herne Bay

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spare a thought for a little girl expecting a dolls house or pram and is given a cement mixer engine... It's the sort of thing that breaks families up. Shame on you Buzzy Wink
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh cr*p what have I done!

Embarassed
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Mog



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 651
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can get a socket on the end of the crankshaft, then use a large rattle gun like they use on tightening wheel nuts. I have seen rusted nuts move that would not move with extension bars etc.
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PAUL BEAUMONT



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 1278
Location: Barnsley S. Yorks

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, not been on line for a bit so this may be a bit late, but a couple of point have not been said, I think.
If you are trying to free an engine without doing any dismantling often turning it backwards works as the cylinders with the valves particularly exhaust valves open tend to corrode above the piston. A crank handle dont help a lot here. This is particularly helpful with a diesel engine.
And dont forget the valves. Diesel etc down the bores will not free OHvalves! they can be right sods!! and on a pushrod engine you can quickly knacker a pushrod just because a valve is seriously stuck.
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TonyBrooks



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 110
Location: Maidenhead

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a member of a SAAB forum which is mainly USA based. They had a similar thread going on how to free a seized two stroke piston. The summary is given below.

I did more research. Muriatic Acid is now commonly called
Hydrochloric acid. It is used to etch concrete which is why it can be
purchased at any home improvement store. A solution of 20%
Hydrochloric Acid and 80% Distilled Water is used to "pickle" steel.
Essentially it gets rid of rust to prepare the steel for application
of various coatings. The gallon of Muriatic Acid I bought from a home
improvement store had a content of 20% Hydrochloric Acid, so it is
ready to apply.

The engine stand I am using allows me to rotate and lock the engine
position in 45 degree increments. After bathing the outer cylinders
with Kroil those pistons freed up. I positioned the engine so I can
apply the Acid in the intake or exhaust ports so the Acid would drip
out of the cylinder without flowing into the crankcase.

It worked GREAT! No pitting of the steel block and cylinder walls. It
removed the scored aluminum deposits on cylinder walls and the walls
show no sign of damage. The position of the piston in relation to the
intake and exhaust ports allows the Acid to reach the damaged areas
of the piston. It took about 24 hours. But, I was able to remove the
crankshaft assembly without using a hydraulic press.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3491
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only just seen this post, what a clever idea using Hydrochloric Acid.
Before mild steel is galvanised it is dipped in the same sort of concentrate solution of hydrochloric acid to remove rust (pickle it).

In the UK its sold as brick cleaner; for removing cement splashes on new brickwork (dissolves the limestone in the cement, produces a bit of carbon dioxide and leaves the sand which will then brush off).

I once bought the acid neat from Boots and diluted it my self to make some brick cleaner, the pharmacist was a bit curious as to why I wanted it, Shocked but at least then you can dilute to the correct ratio.

Getting back to your suggestion, it will help with any steel rusted components, but hydrochloric acid will also react with aluminium so needs to be done with some caution if the pistons are to be reused, you will also be producing hydrogen so donít do it whilst smoking Confused !
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1254
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long ago was it you got Hydochloric Acid from a chemist. 30 years ago I had to to try several before they let me have Oxalic acid for bleaching my Austin Mini Traveller Woody - I have still got the big brown bottle and it still works - its also removes rust stains from paintwork caused by a grinder
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