Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Rick]

I was pondering this the other day, while perusing the homepage of a certain classic car magazine. They have a snippet from an article on their homepage, with the word 'sh*tter' in it. Is this now acceptable practice with a publisher that has an audience both young and old? Are they just trying to appear 'relevant', 'cool' or 'with it'? Perhaps I'm missing something. Would a respected national newspaper use language like that on the first page of their website?

TV 'celebs' (wow I hate that word) 'F' this and 'F' that like its going out of fashion. Some stand-up comedians only seem capable of raising a laugh from their dopey audience if they litter their act with expletives too. Is swearing for the sake of it Funny? or somehow worthy of praise and respect? no wonder some kids can barely string a sentence together without resorting to such unpleasantries when they see and read this kind of thing so often. Am I turning into a grumpy old ***?



R
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[peter scott]

Hi Grumpy Old Rick,

I think swearing can be funny where it's used with irony or for impersonating
and in that, it differs from spitting which NEVER acceptable (except when you've swallowed a mouthful of petrol of course)

Grumpy Old Peter

[Old-Nail]

I've seen this as a cultural thing in the past, depending on your upbringing and social class.

As a working class lad from a council estate I have encountered language and practices that would (and do) astound people from a comfier middle class background.
In recent years, certainly the last ten or so we have seen accepted standards in many areas relaxed, from the ex-Prime minister wearing open necked shirts rather than a tie to the foul mouthed Gordon Ramsey actually given air time.

I don't think it's a matter of age Rick, it's a matter of intelligence and common decency that makes a person wince at such drivel.

The young like those in the animal kingdom, learn by imitation. With the trend toward today's 'popular' culture lionising individuals for their financial worth rather than their actual worth as a person, the younger generation see it as acceptable to use the language of their idols in everyday use.
Hence when younger editors take over magazines we get the infantile expressions.

I began by saying it's a cultural thing, and sadly that is the way our culture is headed. It began when 'celebrity' status was concocted, and as many 'celebrities' now achieve that status for their wealth rather than obvious talent or ability we now have the 'culture' (and language) of Jordan, Sam Fox, Nicky Butt, Pete Dochertey et al.

[Uncle Joe]

Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned, but personally, I dont think that there is any need for swearing, even in comedy.

Lok at some of the old time comedians, such as George Formby. He never swore during his act or films, but still became one of the most popular acts. He did have a record banned though....

[Job-Rated]

Don't you $#!?*!! start !#(%! swearing at me, you !#&%!!




Tommy Cooper didn't need to use expletives to become one of the funniest men alive.
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[pigtin]

[Old-Nail]

Tommy Cooper, Morecambe and Wise and others of that era were genuine craftsman of their trade, often working in showbiz for many years before becoming the masters they became.

Today, if you get your T*ts out, kick a football, or whine a song into a microphone you are instantly feted as a 'genius' and handed a fortune.

Young people are indoctrinated into the celebrity culture from a very young age via TV, internet etc, they aspire to copy their role models, a path that needs no educational qualifications or even talent, (as Simon Cowell and Pete Waterman before him have been manufacturing 'talent' for decades now)

This phenomenon is media lead.

[pigtin]

I was told at school that having to use bad language displayed a woeful lack of vocabulary. Therefore I was surprised to see that Lynn Truss, In her best-selling book on punctuation, “Eats shoots and leaves” considers bad language to be OK.

I find the context, and who is using the bad language makes a big difference to whether it is offensive or not: whatever the case,I don’t particularly like to hear it.

If you want to see the excessive, but sometimes-comical use of obscenities: log on to “The Devils Kitchen” Political Blogsite. The guy responsible is "Public School."

Don.

[Scotty]

I am in no doubt that whilst bad language has always been out there I blame television in its endless pursuit of ratings for the increase in swearing to appear to be either cool, or authoritative. The number of programmes on nowadays that display the most ignorant of attitudes and bad behaviour leaves me speachless. As far as I'm concerned far too often tv legitimises more than just foul language from people I wouldn't normally give house room to, but I also object strongly having to pay the licence fee and then be verbally assaulted in my home. I wouldn't accept in the street, why on earth should I accept in my home.

Of course you'll hear the standard reply "you can always switch over" - give me a break! I want my objections to be heard, not just walk away from my responsibilities. And now we're into the crux of the matter for me - for far too long people have been "walking away" from this growing issue and the morons have got the upper hand, and that includes the professionals in TV!

To finish off, these are my boni-fides on this subject - as some of you know I was a city fireman working in Glasgow for 25 years, but I was also brought up in an inner-city tenement, went to working class schools and left when I was 18 to work in a factory - I can cuss and swear for Scotland and have done so (and still can when pushed), however I always treat people with respect regardless of their status, education or the situation - I think the very least we should expect is the same back.

Boy, that was a good rant!

[Old-Nail]

I agree completely Scotty, the mark of a man is often how he is able to rise above his environment to become respected

The current trend is for softy-walter middle class boys to swear and behave like bad boy council estate kids, it's all a sham just like so many young British black men imitating New York 'gangsta's'!

As I said it's media lead, they buy into an image and apply it out of context
My role models would have been Sir Ranulph Feinnes or Edmund Hillary, today they have Liam Gallagher from Oasis!

[Uncle Joe]

I may be wrong here, but one thing that I suspect is that one cause of bad language is the fact that education standards have declined, and continue to do so.

Then of course, as others have said, the fact that the mass media glorifies some of the personalities - no sorry celebrities - of today. Cant really use the word personality if they dont have one, can I?

And guys, for once, I agree 100% with your views.

[Old-Nail]

Back in 1988 I think it was Pink Floyd's 'The wall' album featured lyrics such as "We don't need no ed-u-cay-shun" and "Hey! Teacher - leave them(sic) kids alone".

They make it appear hip and cool to be uneducated, undisciplined, wasters. Team that up with Janet Street Porter and her introduction of 'Yoof' T.V. full of toilet humour and no-brain interviews and the seeds were sewn.

Many of the poor kids took it literally, flunked school and are now on minimum wage or unemployed, the richer kids with better educational facilities ignored it, secured a good job then pretend to have been 'cool' all along... thus we have the Jade Goody's of the world, and the Chris Evan's.

[Uncle Joe]

When that album was released, I remember reading a review of just that track. I cant remember the exact wording but it was something like ''how intelligently written the text is''

Sometimes, the mind boggles.

[peter scott]

I know the Coen brothers films don't appeal to everybody but a very good example of swearing being funny is demonstrated in "The Big Lebowski".

The characters in the film and their interactions are much more interesting than just a set a people who swear, but the swearing is an integral part.

If you haven't seen this film then I'm probably about to put you right off it.

I couldn't find a good YouTube clip but these give some of the flavour.
(The text overlays in the second clip are not in the original film)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=efZQhYu1E5s&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zFxqvhRyoyM&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bpvfZDCq2E0

Peter

[pigtin]

Loved the bowling scenes and music (Hotel California I think): but I couldn't understand a F****ng word they were saying.

Don.