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Brake line flaring
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SloResto



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Brake line flaring Reply with quote

I had new brake lines made up for the Ph 1 vanguard a couple of years back.

A friend advised that I should get the brake place to do a "double flare" at the ends of the brake line like the original specimens.

When I got the new lines back they had only formed single flares at the end of the brake lines.

I was a bit miffed by this but the guy assured me that singles were all that was needed even after I explained that the car originally had doubles nad that it was recommended to stay with doubles especially as the brakes were only a single system.

I accepted against my better judgement and next week fitted the new lines. i did notice that some of the connections had to be wound pretty tight to seal but nonetheless when tested eventually got no brake fluid loss.

My queston is - could anyone please tell me why a double flare is recommended over a single flare in this case. I have started to undo the lines and will take them to another brake place who say that they can turn the single flares into doubles.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3555
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi SloResto

All you need to do is get a brake flare kit from the likes of Machine Mart, (they are about 15) and to put the 2nd flare in, clamp the new pipes that you have had made in the "clamp" and tighten the tool up without any of the dies in place.



let me know if you want more pics

Dave
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1254
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The double flare makes a better seal in the union and what is happening when you put a single flare into a union/fitting designed for a double is that on tightening up it actually creates a partial double flare from the raised hump inside the fitting/cylinder/union

This may not work as well as it should and with alloy fittings tightening up to make a decent seal can strip the threads in it or split the fitting/cylinder. This damage may develop over a time and brakes will be lost.

In short its dangerous and bad practice to do this so ask for your money back or buy one of the kits and DIY
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SloResto



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile Thanks guys for your helpful advice. UK Dave I am not sure exactly what you mean by clamping them "without the dies in place". I'm guessing that you need the die to form the flare but hey I'm new to this discipline.

I got the impression that brake pipe flaring (especially double flaring) was a bit of a black art and that a novice or someone at least who wasn't doing it regularly may experience great difficuties with it.

Or is it pretty straight forward once you have had a few practise goes at it?

I'll have a bit of a search around my local auto shops in the meantime for the tool.

Thanks again

cheers
Mark Smile
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3555
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloResto wrote:
Smile UK Dave I am not sure exactly what you mean by clamping them "without the dies in place". I'm guessing that you need the die to form the flare but hey I'm new to this discipline.

IMark Smile


I'll post some pic's, later today.

Dave
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Uncle Joe
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a bit intrigued by this topic. The thing that decides the kind of flare needed is the seat that in this case, the brake pipe butts up against. Surely the brake company would not recommend the incorrect flaring? If they did, then they would be putting one or more lives at risk... Shocked

Have they seen either the old pipes, or the cylinders (or whatever) they are used with?
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3555
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did a quick double flare this afternoon Razz (whilst waiting for paint to dry on some rise & fall brackets!!) , in mosts cases you could add the 2nd flare with pipes in situ, but I have taken picks of the whole process.

First pic the fresh cut pipe in the clamp


2nd pic first flare being created, note the die in place

After the 1st flare (this is what your pipes will have looked like when you picked them up?.

The 2nd flare is created without the additional die, its flaring the inside of the pipe.

And the pipe with doubel flare.


Whole process takes about 1 min per end, hope this helps.

Dave
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I have used a different tool in the past, but often seen those and wondered how they worked, may get one next time I see one.

Cheers for the guide!

Cheers

Dave
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Uncle Joe
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use one of these tools myself, the only thing that I dont like about them are the marks that they leave on the pipe afterwards. I always worry that these marks will cause cracks or some other damage later.

Dont forget that if you are using copper to make the pipes, it has to be the type that is alloyed with nickel.
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Scotty



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 887

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post Dave - thanks for taking the time to explain the process. Very Happy

Rick - Just a thought, perhaps posts like Daves could be archived into a "How to ......." section? They almost certainly would help people understand the dark art of classic vehicle ownership and some of the simpler jobs that need to be done with the aid of pictures, as per Daves example.

Scotty. Wink
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21319
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that really is a great contribution ukd, thanks for putting that together. I bought a pipe flaring tool a year or two back, but hadn't looked into how it works.

Who else thinks that a central archive of handy snippets like this would be a good plan? I could set up a category on here just for that, and I'd add articles in as and when they came along, probably standalone and locked, to keep things tidy

R
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

It gets my vote!

Cheers

Dave
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6299
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a good suggestion.

Peter
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21319
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only question I have, will there be enough 'golden' tips like this to make a separate category worthwhile? just wonderin' ... ? it'd be a fab thing to have, but it'd need to have stuff in it to work

R
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Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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47p2



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2002
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick,
I would think that over a period of time an archive of golden tips could be built up and therefore be useful for members when they need information.

Rome as they say wasn't built in a day Shocked
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