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Hot running?
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wrinx



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 142
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:23 pm    Post subject: Hot running? Reply with quote

Not sure if I have a problem or not....but would appreciate some comments anyway Very Happy

I replaced the head gasket on my car a couple of years ago and then the bottom end went (contaminated oil from the HG failure!) so I had the crank reground and put new shells in.

All went well until the HG failed again some 2,000 miles later (overtightened I think!). So, I had the head skimmed again (only 0.07 from memory) just top be sure. Block face looks good, I checked with a ruler and feeler, everything within tolerance.

I'm sure the whole engine is much hotter to the touch than before I started working on it...but the coolant temperature is perfect (recently had the capillary gauge repaired and recalibrated). Currently running on Halfords 20/50 Classic green stuff but only put water in the radiator this time, until I'm sure of the integrity of the head gasket. Still hot though...

Initially my only thought was a blocked waterway but when the head was off this time I checked...no problem. Also had the head pressure tested, again no problem.

So, my only other thought is that the timing might be out, causing excessive temperature in the head. But surely the coolant would deal with this, so perhaps it's my imagination?

I've not been able to check the timing properly as the timing marks are in the wrong place!!! However, I have set it to TDC when number one spark plug fires and it initially ran ok but is beginning to get harder to start...not another head gasket I hope!!!

Sorry for going on.....but any thoughts?

wrinx
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming you are not running with retarded ignition and you believe the cooling system is operating correctly then there is another way to increase you cooling efficiency. Use a wetting agent:

http://www.evanscooling.com/main25.htm

Not cheap so you don't want to have any leaks. Wink

Peter
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Greeney in France



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 1173
Location: Limousin area of France

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incorrect timing will effect heat in the head as the "explosion" wont happen correctly and heat wont dissipate.
"Antifreeze" does help lower temperatures too so running with just water will give a couple of degrees more.
Not forgetting of course "antifreeze" is not the correct term, it is also a corrosion inhibitor controlling the corrosive elements between alloys and steel
Water wetter do work well too
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47p2



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2009
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modern fuels also burn much hotter than the fuel they replaced, thus generating a lot more heat in the engine bay
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Retarded ignition will cause overheating - not many cars like running at TDC esepcially tuned ones

What MODEL is it? Make sure CB gap is not too narrow as this retards ignition and makes starting difficult. Use a dwell meter before timing it

Try advancing it a little. make up a cardboard scale and pointer on the front pulley. Check centrifugal and vac advance and/or retatrd is operating and not sticking

Localised overheating due silting up of the block may be a problem as will binding brakes.

Be careful as you may distort head and block permanently or hole a piston
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wrinx



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 142
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks chaps, sounds like I have a problem with the timing then Very Happy I need to work out a way of marking the flywheel Confused

Afraid I'm more at home with modern engines and still learning the ropes with classic stuff Rolling Eyes

I set the engine at TDC as everything I'd read mentioned the spark should occur at the point of maximum compression.

@ Greeney...I always use antifreeze but have temporarily left it out as I'm told it doesn't mix with oil. So I'm being cautious with the new head gasket, when I know it's secure I'll change the coolant Very Happy Purchasing the replacement bottom end shells was not a cheap experience!

Will have to dig out the Gunsons meter and read the handbook properly Laughing

wrinx
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wrinx



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 142
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil - Nottingham wrote:
What MODEL is it? Make sure CB gap is not too narrow as this retards ignition and makes starting difficult. Use a dwell meter before timing it


CB gap is/was spot on last time I checked but will check it again and investigate the Dwell setting Very Happy The car is the Tonkatoy in my signature, which has a detuned (65bhp) 1900 Alfa Twincam engine.


Phil - Nottingham wrote:
Try advancing it a little. make up a cardboard scale and pointer on the front pulley. Check centrifugal and vac advance and/or retatrd is operating and not sticking


Thanks, will do...2-3 degrees before TDC to start with?

wrinx
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Scotty



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree with all the previous good advice, but if I may ask a question please - did the rebuild involve removing the distributor or an associated part that would require the timing to be reset?

If it didn't and everything is exactly where it was prior to the rebuild then I'm wondering how the timing could have been altered sufficiently to have changed the running characteristics of the engine.

Have you checked for an air lock and / or free flow around the system? Sometimes gunge gets loosened during a major mechanical intervention and "falls" to the lowest sections of the circulation circuit and restricts the flow.

Good luck, personally I hate these situations when it happens to me as I always end up pulling my hair out trying to get things back to the status-quo. Wink
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Greeney in France



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
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Location: Limousin area of France

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah also the distributor could have been replaced 180° out if it was removed Shocked
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greeney in France wrote:
Ah also the distributor could have been replaced 180° out if it was removed Shocked


Meaning the engine wouldn't generate any heat at all. Laughing
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dclf1947



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 107
Location: Laoag City, Philippines

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was in the UK I had cooling problems on 3 of my cars over a period of time. In all cases it ended up being the radiator matrix needing replacement. Even though with the radiator out out of the car if you poured water in the top of the radiator a steady flow came out the bottom connection. The problem was that many of the radiator pipes were blocked reducing the efficiency. The local radiator repair guy showed me the one from my MK1 Transit camper, I was amazed how many were blocked and yet it only overheated when I towed.

Dave
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wrinx



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 142
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scotty wrote:
I would agree with all the previous good advice, but if I may ask a question please - did the rebuild involve removing the distributor or an associated part that would require the timing to be reset?


Greeney in France wrote:
Ah also the distributor could have been replaced 180° out if it was removed Shocked


Yes, the distributor was removed, as were the cams and valves etc for the head to be skimmed.

Funnily enough, I did manage to put the distributor in upside down to begin with Laughing

I'm liking the timing being out, it's what I suspected initially and now the TDC issue has been explained I see why....thanks guys Very Happy

Gives me something to do on a wet weekend...

wrinx
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wrinx



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 142
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dclf1947 wrote:
When I was in the UK I had cooling problems on 3 of my cars over a period of time. In all cases it ended up being the radiator matrix needing replacement. Even though with the radiator out out of the car if you poured water in the top of the radiator a steady flow came out the bottom connection. The problem was that many of the radiator pipes were blocked reducing the efficiency. The local radiator repair guy showed me the one from my MK1 Transit camper, I was amazed how many were blocked and yet it only overheated when I towed.

Dave
Philippines


That's strange Confused Usually there's some overheating with a rad in that condition.

Water temp is rock solid but the radiator is permanently cooled by the fan being driven from the crank....but I'll bear your experience in mind if it still runs hot after setting the timing properly. Very Happy

wrinx
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dclf1947



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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Location: Laoag City, Philippines

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading though the topic again if the temperature gauge probe is fitted to the head or block and the gauge that has been recently calibrated is not showing excessive temperature you have not got a problem? Normal running temperature is too hot to touch by hand.
If the probe is fitted on the radiator and you consider you still have a problem it could possibly be the thermostat, try running without it.
Just my thoughts.

Dave
Philippines
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wrinx



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 142
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The probe is fitted to the inlet manifold so not directly in the head, hence why I was worried it might not truly reflect the head temperature.

I've just been playing with the timing and my strobe light (vacuum pipe off), think I've got it set about right!

The idle speed increased slightly when I advanced the ignition, which I took to be a good thing Very Happy

Noticed the plugs were rather black but it would have been over-fuelling Rolling Eyes

It does seem to "sound" better and I'm off for a little run to see how it performs....although "performs" is a bit of a relative termn when used to describe the Tonkatoy Laughing

wrinx
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