Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[cobber]

Good morning Classic car people

I have migrated over from the “Classic Caravan Forum” where I have had my 1936 classic caravan posted for some time.
http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2444&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I suspect it was made in Australia using plans and some parts that were available in England at that time... the plans possibly came from “Brockhouse” who may have supplied the chassis components.

What I would like to know is.... can anybody identify what vehicle the wheel might have come off, it is 16in. 3 stud with a PCD around 4 in. (101.5 mm). It is fitted with 5.25/16 tyres.

I realise that when some cars were exported to Australia (such as the Morris) they had different sized wheels fitted to them but, did the stud pattern also change??

The wheel bearings have also defied all attempts to find what they came off, can anybody help me identify them.




This bearing is the inner bearing, the outer is the same design but smaller.
As can be seen the cup has an unusual curved external profile. The inside surface of the cone is tapered to fit a tapered axle. The ball bearings don't fit in a cage, they just roll around between the cup and the cone.

Thanks for looking,

Cobber.

[Roverron]

I seem to recall being told many years ago that mid 30s Hillmans had three-hole wheels. The holes around the edge look somewhat Hillmanish too.
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To Hell with ambition, it drives a man mad, I can scarcely wake up to be fed.

[Kaybee]

Hey there Cobber, have a look at the 2nd last small pic.....



http://cars2.ebay.com.au/RARE-Hillman-Sedan-Hotrod-or-Restore-Bargain_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ320272451979



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If it's old...it's good !

[cobber]

Thanks for that reply Roverron, Kaybee (who is an Aussie mate) has been telling me it is a Hillman wheel for about a year now... but I was just after a second opinion, and third, and fourth .

The thing that puts doubt in my mind that my wheel is off a 1936 Hillman is this photo of a 1936 Hillman with a five stud wheel in the boot.


This photo you lead me to KB, of a wheel alongside the 1946 Hillman, certainly looks the same as mine...... might have to buy you a beer @ Coledale...... if 1936 Hillman had the same wheel

Cobber

[Kaybee]

Hi Cobber, that's a BIG Hillman, don't think there was too many of those out here...most common here were like the one on Ebay, and I'd guess that most of the small Hilly's from the late 30's would have the same wheels too. Did you chase up the trailer I showed the pic of at Lakes Entrance with those wheels ?....or the one in the background of the Studebaker ad. in Sydney....they're everywhere....
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If it's old...it's good !

[poodge]

Is it possibly from a Bradford van?I seem to remember them having 3 stud wheels.The holes around the outside give me that impression.Or maybe I was thinking of a Vauxhall.But I would think they would be too heavy for 3 stud wheels.

[cobber]

Thanks Poodge,

Most people tell me the early Vauxhall had 6 stud wheels.
How about the bearings, do you know if any of the early Jowett's had wheel bearings like those ?

Cobber.

[Mog]

Morgan 3-wheelers had those bearings on the front wheels. They never lasted very long, I replaced a good few.

The ones in the photo are stuffed !!!

[Mog]

With 47 years of experience behind me, I would say that they are a cheap bearing. It looks like, from the photos, that they were made from a case hardening steel, hardened and then ground up. The hardening would only be 30-40 thou. max., that is why they failed quickly. Why didn't I work that out 47 years ago......

[cobber]

Mog,

Your my mate.... I've been trying to identify that bearing for two years and nobody has even been able to have a guess.

The one in the photo is the off side one, the near side one is still OK but I might be pushing my luck because the caravan is probably heavier than the Morgan three wheelers are eh?.

I don't suppose these bearings were also used on the 4 4 were they ?

Do the bits shown in these photos below look like they came off the Morgan too?




Thanks for your help Mog,

Cobber.

[Mog]

The early Morgan 3-wheelers that had these bearings, had non detachable wheels. i.e. no studs. Some guys put taper roller bearings in, but you had to remove all the spokes and re-machine the hub. If you want to stick to the original bearings, you could contact www.mtwc.co.uk and they should be able to tell you were to get them. I do not think that they are Morgan brakes in the photo.

I had an 1936 Austin 7 Ruby, did they have 3 studs ? I cannot remember.

Perhaps they are Austin 7 brakes ?

[62rebel]

perhaps they are something French or Italian? i recall somewhere seeing three lug wheels of large diameter but of small cross section on light continental cars. just trying to help!

[cobber]

Mog,

Thanks for your suggestion, I have contacted the MTWC.
I don't know anything about the Austin 7 or it's brakes... maybe an Austin 7 tragic can chime in here

62rebel,
Thanks for your suggestion... any help is appreciated, Peugeot and Citroen have been mentioned at various times.

Cobber.

[cobber]

Mog mate,

Thanks again for setting me on the right track regarding these wheel bearings

I have been in touch with the MTWC who have been very helpful in confirming what you say, and even offering me a NOS cup.

I am reluctant to do it but I think I will have to modify my Morgan three wheeler set up so that I have something more easily repairable in case of bearing failure in this part of the world.... you must promise not to let any of the people in the “Australian Vintage Caravan” movement know this.......... some of them frown on modifications .

So now I know I have Morgan three wheeler bearings and Hillman wheels ..... I wonder what the bits in-between are, the backing plate and the brake drum ??

Cobber.

[Kaybee]