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HHO fuel cells
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peppiB



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 687
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: HHO fuel cells Reply with quote

Anyone made or used one of these? Claims for increased mpg seem incredible.

If you haven't heard of them, basically you have a 2 pint bottle of water under the bonnet. It has 2 stainless steel electrodes in it, fed from vehicle electrics, and the resulting gasses (HHO) are piped into the air intake or carb, depending on which instructions are followed.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6206
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a bit like mounting a wind generator on the roof of your car. Rolling Eyes Sad

Quote from Wiki:

Quote:
The energy efficiency of water electrolysis varies widely. The efficiency is a measure of what fraction of electrical energy used is actually contained within the hydrogen. Some of the electrical energy is converted to heat, a useless by-product. Some reports quote efficiencies between 50% and 70%[1] This efficiency is based on the Lower Heating Value of Hydrogen. The Lower Heating Value of Hydrogen is total thermal energy released when hydrogen is combusted minus the latent heat of vaporisation of the water. This does not represent the total amount of energy within the hydrogen, hence the efficiency is lower than a more strict definition. Other reports quote the theoretical maximum efficiency of electrolysis as being between 80% and 94%.[2]. The theoretical maximum considers the total amount of energy absorbed by both the hydrogen and oxygen. These values refer only to the efficiency of converting electrical energy into hydrogen's chemical energy. The energy lost in generating the electricity is not included. For instance, when considering a power plant that converts the heat of nuclear reactions into hydrogen via electrolysis, the total efficiency is more likely to be between 25% and 40%
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peppiB



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 687
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have made one of these now and put it onto my V8 Merc. Initial results seem interesting - the engine starts as usual on petrol and after about 5 seconds the HHO kicks in. The engine then runs a lot smoother, and when driving it is almost silent. I had a friend follow me and there was virtually nothing coming out of the exhaust (this is a 1987 engine with 145000 miles on it) The car was far more responsive. I will check mpg on a measured run next week, but for what it cost the extra power, cleanliness and smooth running it is already worth it.
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I think you need to provide more details about this, and perhaps a few pictures?

Sounds very interesting, I think I missed this thread before!

Cheers

Dave
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peppiB



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 687
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is a link to someone selling a crude kit on ebay. The one I made is a bit more refined than a jam jar! I can verify that it shifts carbon - there is a dirty great patch of it on my drive.

I may well use spare capacity at a fabrications factory I have an interest in to produce these commercially.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FIT-HYDROGEN-HHO-CELL-WATER4GAS-SAVE-FUEL-MPG-FULL-KIT_W0QQitemZ190246453522QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190246453522&_trkparms=72%3A984|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
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peppiB



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 687
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have now tested my unit on an uphill down dale route I regularly do. Including the very heavy climbs I achieved an overall saving of 25% in petrol (3 gallons today instead of the usual 4) and the unit used quarter of a pint of water. I did notice that on a flat dual carriageway the car was virtually coasting along so savings on a motorway run should exceed the 25%. The car was also a lot more responsive, and very quiet. I am well pleased
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1722
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is very interesting, could you put in some more details of what consists the kit and how to do it and install.
Thinking of making one for my daily!!
Will it work on short distances just the same though?
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peppiB



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 687
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have started to make these units for sale now (well, I have orders for 2 anyway!!) and have refined my original design and will do some photos later today when I assemble the next one. You need 2 electrodes made from stainless steel, a container of approx 2 pints (depending on how much room you have under the bonnet) rubber piping like screenwash stuff, and connectors for the piping. Power must be through the ignition to one electrode, and the other electrode runs to earth. I feed the HHO gas into my system via the air intake, although some plans show it through the inlet manifold.

Yesterday I was running on tap water but some people report increased performance if you add a touch of bi-carb. Will get some of that next time I am in a supermarket and compare the performance.

It starts working about 5 seconds after you start the car, so short journeys are no problem. I will pm you the web page I post the photos on bob2 (and any other forum member that asks) so they are not on open view as currently plans for these things sell for between 30 and 50! I am selling the complete units for self fit at 50
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peppiB



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 687
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steel hasn't arrived so will do photos when it does - probably tomorrow.
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1722
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok seems fairly easy, will wait for the pics

cheers
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peppiB



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 687
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitted one of these to the Minor this afternoon. Shocked Shocked May have to upgrade the brakes and fit a servo as it goes like ****
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pigtin



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1882
Location: Herne Bay

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm fascinated by this concept and want to make one for my Sprite. But it's twin carb... What would work best: two seperate units, feeding it into the manifold, or two pipes from one unit, one to each carb?

Don.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21126
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have there been tests to check for any long term affects to an engine?

Rick
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peppiB



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 687
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think this is an enthusiasts led thing so no formal testing as far as I know. People have reported their engines virtually carbon free when they have been dismantled. It certainly shifts the muck. I fitted one to someones 4.2 merc on Saturday. The car was in a dire state, really bunged up, misfiring, belching black smoke and stalling frequently. Cleaned the plugs, fitted a unit and fired it up. The amount of carbon deposited on my drive had to be seen to be believed. The engine suddenly became smooth running again, no black smoke and it drove beautifully. Had the owner on the phone twice now singing its praises and thinking I am some sort of magician for fixing his car.

I took my Minor around the lakes on Sunday - up hill and down dale. 165 miles on 3 gallons of petrol.
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Uncle Joe
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really against my better judgement to comment on this but anyway....

Ask yourselves a question, guys. If they really worked, then do you not think that the major motor manufacturers would be offering them on their vehicles by now? Motor manufacturers tested these something like 30 years ago to my knowldge, and found they didnt work.

They had a tendency to damage engines. Premature wear (I've personally seen one totally shot after 5000 miles). Nowadays, I expect that they would damage certain engine sensors, as well as increase certain emissions.

So what I would say is this. Save your money....
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