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It seemed like a good idea at the time .............
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tunnelvision



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:22 pm    Post subject: It seemed like a good idea at the time ............. Reply with quote

My son was back from uni over Christmas - so my wife suggested he & I go out for a drive in my old 68 mustang, since it had hardly been out the garage all year and it was such a great day for a drive. Since he was insured he had a go driving it - after about half an hour there was loads of smoke coming out the bonnet louvers - the clutch it seems was completely 'burnt' out Sad - not sure how we managed this. The odd thing was that it seemed like the brakes were locked as the car could not be pushed. After going to a nearby McDonalds to have think and some fries - we returned to find that the car would roll back and forth - and surprise surprise would drive again. What on earth overheated(?) that would cause all the clutch smoke and 'locked' brakes. I assuming we managed to do some serious damage - is there anyway of checking without doing major surgery?. As always a drive out in the 'stang is never boring. Any advice welcome
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6200
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi TV,

Welcome to the forum. The clutch will have hard time if your brakes are locked on so I suspect the brakes should be the first thing to look at. Although I've had this happen in my daughter's car I can't remember the reason for the brakes locking up. I assume the Mustang will be discs at the front and maybe drums at the rear. Did you happen to notice whether it was the front or rear brakes that locked on?

Peter
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tunnelvision



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Peter - yes the front are disk/rear drum - no couldn't work out which were locked. If it was the clutch ( since there all that glorious clutch smoke ) - can the clutch get so hot it locks up - as if the car was in gear? Which would, I guess have the same effect as locked brakes?
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dclf1947



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Laoag City, Philippines

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely if the gearbox is in neutral and the car is still hard to push it must be the brakes? Seems a bit like a master cylinder problem to me.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6200
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi TV,

If the clutch were locked up you would not be able to select 1st gear at standstill. I think the clutch smoking is just a symptom and not a cause.

I would suspect the brakes are the real problem. You could just wait until the problem recurs and then touch each road wheel in turn until you establish which brake is stuck on.

I don't know what will be causing you brakes to lock but I would imagine that there is some ridge worn into the sliding surfaces of a part or corrosion somewhere. If the problem is recurring then I think it's more likely to be in the disc calipers rather than in your drums but that's just a guess.

Peter

p.s. Just seen dclf's post. Yes the master cylinder is a good suggestion.
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tunnelvision



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx guys - good comments - the master cylinder / booster was replaced earlier this year due to squashy brakes. I did manage to get the car in gear when the problem occurred - but could not get any revs up. Since it was struggling so much to move - was decided to retreat to Mac's. If it was the brake(s) that locked - why would the clutch have been smoking so much?
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Welcome from me, any pics of your stang?

Could lack of use have anything to do with the brakes being a little sticky? Maybe it was the hand brake, does this share the same shoes as the foot brake?

Cheers

Dave
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tunnelvision



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzzy bee

Maybe lack of use - or the fact that my son is a cacky driver. handbrake is not that strong - can drive with it on - but in this case it was definitively off.

Here some pictures earlier this year.


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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi TV,

The clutch will only smoke if you are slipping it but if the brakes are locked on then you will probably need a bit more clutch slip to get the car under way.

I would definitely fix the brakes first and then see if the clutch still smokes.

Peter
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Now that looks good!

Better not let your son see this forum! If my father called me a cacky driver... well.... Laughing

I would be tempted to check the brakes, some garages do free brake checks, get one of them done perhaps, don't let them fix them, but they could check them, and then keep an eye on the rest.

If the clutch is on the way out then that will need changing anyway in the near future. On the other hand the clutch is well adjusted is it?

Cheers

Dave
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Ray the rocker



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 187
Location: south wales

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: brake probs. Reply with quote

hi TV,it`s interesting you point a finger at the clutch--no problems occured when initial start up was achieved ie--centre plate stuck to the flywheel which normally happens when laid up !
As long as gearchanging was clean,i would plum for seized front brake calipers after the brake was applied during your trip. You then tend to blame the clutch for excessive fumes coming thro the venting.If your fighting to gain any speed with the brake locked on,your clutch is trying to give you forward motion which will heat up eventually,giving you the fumes .Hope it all turns out ok.


Cheers---Ray the Rocker...
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tunnelvision



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips guys.

I am definitively blaming my son though - he drove his old punto from manchester to eastbourne today to see his girlfriend - managed to breakdown on the M25. He was pretty laid back about the whole thing as his heater packed up 1/2 way down the M6 and he said it was nice and warm in the AA cab when it finally got him to eastbourne.

As he managed to get smoke out of two cars on one weekend. Shocked Is that a record i wonder.

I think I will take the 'stang out for a gentle trip to the local garage - and have a look at the brakes.
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RotaryBri



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 466
Location: Warwick

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had this brake problem on my Ro80 and it was the front flexible brake hoses breaking up on the inside. The inner liner delaminates and then acts as a one way flap valve allowing brake fluid to pass OK but not return so the brakes stay on and then get very hot. The smoke was pouring off my pads when I stopped.

I should change your flexible brake pipes first before looking at anything else.
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pigtin



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1882
Location: Herne Bay

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure the brake pedal is returning fully and the master cylinder piston is not blocking the transfer passage. We had a thread about this problem about six months ago. Had it on my special.

Don.
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andycars



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 238
Location: South Wales

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the cap on the brake master cylinder is vented, make sure the small air-hole is clear to allow recovery of the fluid in the cylinder when the pedal is released. I've heard of brakes sticking after a short time of driving due to the vent being blocked and the brakes staying on after several applications.
I suppose the same could be true of a hydraulic clutch, in which case slipping and hence burning could occur due to inadvertent partial application??
Maybe a long shot but quick & easy to check/eliminate.
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