Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[TM8]

Hi All,
Need some assistance please, i have completed the Wooden rebuild of the Car as per the Instructions that came with the wood very detailed i might add. So the wood is correct, so when i offered up the Steel Quater panels there are some issues. I am aware that i will be modifiing some of the panels as the previous wooden frame was a home job with respect to the previous builder.
What i need some assistance with is where does the bottom end of the steel panel meant to line up surely it goes past the Chassis? And not as per the picture.

The other question for the Two seaters out there is there another wooden block between the steel frame and the rear cover board, i have confrimed whether my steel frame is the correct length and it is and the Wooden frame is correct assistance please.

Last one for today there is mention that there are two interior panels on the inside of the rear Quater steel panels one smaller one which covers the Trafficator and the the larger one which extendes up on the side of the Quarter panel and over the wheel arch and extends to the piece of wood that protects the hood when down. photos of the back end would of great help if any one can help.
Regards
Trevor

[Rosco663]

Gidday Trevor,

Congratulations on the fantastic work so far, your project looks to be getting closer to completion everytime we see it

I hope the following will help even though mine is an Australian bodied Tourer. Enough detail can be seen to show that the inner rear mudguards do not go past the chassis rail and some fairly large gaps are present. Detail of the wooden framing may also assist you in deciding which way to finish your frame also. One thing about the Gilbert Coachworks is that they were definitely using a lot more wood than others at the time and as a consequence the car is heavier and slower. My problem to come is how to lighten the structure to improve performance

Are the inner rear mudguards part of your rear quarter panels? Although not clear in the following photos on my Tourer they are separate and are fixed to the composite wooden rear wheel arches using the same coachbolts that secure the rear wings.

Anyhow a picture is worth a thousand words - so to save typing here come a few thousand words for you

Figure 1/
With flooring intact. Metal plate removed where differential dip stick is accessed. The rearmost cover surrounding the filler pipe is thin plate steel tacked into place.



Figure 2/
Rear subframe top is flush with top of the chassis rail curved section.



Figure 3/
Detailed view of wheel arch section and rear subframe, showing very large gaps between chassis and inner mudguard. If you look closely you will also notice daylight coming through gaps between the wooden wheel arch and the top of the inner mudguard (rear wing removed).



I guess the reason for so much timber in the rear is for the back seat which of course you don't have. And one thing for sure weatherproofing all these gaps will also be a challenge - let us know how you get on.

I hope this helps mate

Cheers
_________________
Rosco

[goneps]

Interesting pictures, Rosco, showing a quite different approach from the factory Tourer body. In particular the door posts appear to be poorly supported.

The fuel tank is the Saloon type, but it's a moot point whether chassis exported to Australia were fitted with different tanks depending upon the type of body they were destined for. Quite possibly all were fitted with Saloon tanks and the body builders left to make their own arrangements. On Morris-bodied open cars the filler neck is much longer with integral filler cap flange (this can be seen in one of Trevor's most recent photos).

Piping between wings and body panels will go some way towards concealing small gaps.

Must say I'd be very surprised if a few extra bits of timber would add so much weight as to reduce the performance to a noticeable degree. The weight of occupants is a far more influential factor. Take the difference between a 60kg driver and one weighing a more normal (for these days) 80kg. I doubt very much if there's an extra 20kg of timber in your Gilbert body compared with others! Time for a stint at the gym, perhaps?

There used to be a Richards-bodied Tourer in Te Aroha (a couple of hours from Auckland), but it's a long time since I last saw it. Eights exported to NZ were complete cars, although from around the Series II onwards they were painted locally by the distributors, Dominion Motors in Wellington.

Keep up the good work!

Richard

[Rosco663]

Gidday Richard,

Interesting comment about the filler neck. There was a short section of rubberised canvas tubing connecting the tank neck to the filler neck mounted to the bodywork when I got hold of this one. I reckon this will be replaced with a modern alternative. I am pretty sure all the chassis would have come into Oz in standard trim to allow any style of body to be fitted by the numerous coachbuilders at that time.

The door posts are fairly sturdy as they have some very impressive 1/4" steel reinforcing built into them, as well as a decent fillet in the corner. The wheel arch gets a similar hunk of steel reinforcing also.



There is only one other Gilbert bodied Tourer to my knowledge in the Morris Register of South Australia - unless another turns up in due course - the owner of which is always commenting on how slow his is compared to others in the club. He is replacing certain main structural timbers with folded sheet metal to reduce weight - I'm not that brave and intend to do a more original restoration.
Fair comment about the weight issue though - I dream of getting back down to 80kg to solve this I would be more inclined to add performance modifications to the side valve engine - twin carbies, extractors and a high compression head etc etc

Cheers
_________________
Rosco

[goneps]

'Evening Rosco,

I was comparing the door post reinforcement with this:



The photo is of a Morris-bodied Tourer (not mine), showing (if you look carefully) the 1/4" mild steel brace which runs the full width in front of the seat, thence forward to and up the door posts. As you can see there's also a steel plate to brace everything at the bottom.

No offence intended, but your fellow Gilbert owner would do better to get his engine producing its intended power. The open cars are much lighter than Saloons, particularly the four-door, and if he can't keep up with them he should be looking under the bonnet, not reinventing bodywork. It might be something as simple as the distributor auto-advance not retarding due to tired springs, a common fault that can make a huge difference to torque. Even timing that's more than a few degrees out will render the engine lame and lethargic, and the only way to set it accurately is with a stroboscope.

Cheers,

Richard

[Rosco663]

Good grief Richard now I see where you are coming from

Is it a genuine Morris fitment or something added later? I could do something like that so I don't have to replace my rotted wooden sections Just kidding I will replace the timbers as required.

I am planning to get mine restored to original specs first and on the road before looking at a modified side banger - but believe me once I have all the bits I will grab a spare engine block and let the games begin........then we will have a Gilbert Bodied Tourer drag race will make for one hell of a good video

Cheers

P.S. I hope this is all of some help to you Trevor
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Rosco

[goneps]

It's the genuine article, Rosco. And at the risk of being the bearer of bad tidings, the small ports and consequent restricted breathing of the UB engine make meaningful performance gains virtually impossible. If you're not satisfied with the performance, which is really quite reasonable with a well-tuned motor, rather transplant a Series E engine and get an immediate 26% increase in power, shell bearings, better tappets, etc.

Personally I prefer to keep things original-looking, if possible....

Richard

[TM8]

Thanks for all the feed back and so much more .
I now have enough to move on safely they say there is nothing stealing with your eyes and photos are the next best thing to the physical thing.
Thanks
Regards
Trevor

[Rosco663]

[goneps]

Until you run out of brakes, or go farming instead of around a bend, or break the diff (which is notoriously weak), etc. Each to his own, of course, but I simply can't see the point of getting a slow old car with loads of character and then trying to turn it into something it's not and never will be. The pleasure of a Morris Eight is that it was built at a time when life was slower, so it sets its own pace and gives you time to enjoy the scenery. If you want to go fast, a bland and soulless modern car makes a lot more sense and might even prevent you from killing yourself.

Oh, and by the way, that fancy twin carb. setup has no chance of fitting inside the wing. There's not even room for the air silencer with a Series E block and manifold.

Richard

[Rosco663]

[goneps]

[ukdave2002]

[Rosco663]

After seeing the tank engine, do you reckon there will be enough room in the S1 for another set of belts and pullies? Might get very tight in there....

Could make for another very interesting thread
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Rosco

[goneps]

Rosco,

'Tank' engines have long been converted for Eights by MR members in Britain. Originally they came with so much auxiliary equipment that the engine itself is almost hidden under it, but all that is stripped off and with a few bits from a donor UB or USHM (Series E) motor, plus a few simple mods, it's a nice tidy conversion.

A fellow Auckland MR member has a similar marine Eight motor in his four-door Saloon, which again is similar to the Brockhouse industrial version of the UB.

Richard