Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Richard, I finally found a YouTube of the Wheeler Dealers veteran car. Very entertaining and the presenters couldn't contain their joy , as you observed.
But I would find the sort of prices you have to, pay for those essential, one-off re manufactured items more than I could bear. So good luck with those gears and well done for your persistence |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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True, it is amazing what you can become used to!
Looking at the price of repairing classic car gearboxes £1000 for a fully rebuilt unit which is, I suspect, genuinely unique (only 4 of that model exist and they changed the gearbox for 1912 and mine is the only 1912 or later one surviving) is not bad. _________________ Richard |
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colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Point taken Richard . And after all, despite the fact I know you wouldn't part with it, as a working veteran car it is worth spending money on. I was out of touch with just how valuable these machines are until Wheeler Dealers filled me in on this! |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Value in the veteran car world is impossible to measure until something actually sells, a discussion I had with my insurance company this year when agreeing the value.
Car insurance is there to indemnify you against a total loss and, in theory, put you back in the same position you were in immediately before the incident (but without unreasonable betterment). In the case of a vehicle which all but unique and is unlikely to ever be sold how do put a value on it.
In my case I looked at how much I've spent, added in the time I've spent on it (at £50 per hour) and then reduced it by a good chunk and presented that to the Insurer who accepted it. To buy a similarly aged car in the same condition (or more original) but less rare would probably only cost 2/3rds the 'value' of mine or perhaps only half of what mine might achieve at auction just now.
The odd thing is, such rarity is often something that devalues a car unless it is a very well known marque. Valuing old cars is like valuing art - get the marketing right and find 2 people keen for it and the price goes up.
Either way, a car that is fully restored but is unpleasant to use or cant be used is, in my opinion, almost worthless so I'll continue to spend the money to have the car running ever better and more reliably. I get more enjoyment out of it than a 2 week beach holiday which would probaly cost be a few thousand each year anyway _________________ Richard |
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colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:16 am Post subject: |
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"I get more enjoyment out of it than a 2 week beach holiday which would probaly cost be a few thousand each year anyway"
Totally empathise with that but cuts little ice in my case with SWMBO! |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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With gearbox delivered to the specialist who charged me 2 hours labour to dismantle it despite it taking him all afternoon ("we were so fascinated nothing else got done that day") I found a proper machine shop with a host of 80+ year old machines who will make 2 new gears for 3rd gear, a new pivot pin for the output shaft UJ, reface the gear selector forks and skim the transmission brake. To say this guy is with the programme is an understatement, although ages with me he is properly old fashioned in his engineering work ethic and I'm delighted to have found him.
For those interested ... http://www.forrestprecisioneng.com/
I had a guided tour of the place and it was fascinating. During the hour and a half Scott spent with me I mentioned the problem with the steering so he showed me how they can pretty much make anything that does not need cast. Suitably enthused I came home and remove the steering box and was delighted to find that not only does it have A&O stamped on it ( not that clearly but it is there) but the box is 100% tight, it was the pitman arm which was very loose.
I am pretty sure that the arm is not original to the box and someone had left out the woodruff key AND used a clamping bolt that was only 2/3 the right diameter. As a result there was almost 1/4 turn play at the steering wheel. This led to a horrible driving experience and on roads with varying camber and unnerving rolling motion almost like the car was swimming! A new key and a correctly sized pin will sort this, and cheaply.
So, by Xmas, I will have a fully rebuilt gearbox, oil tight(ish) with all new bearings and a sorted steering box all ready to paint and fit as appropriate. I'll also get around to cleaning the chassis subframe and repainting in black and possibly make new brake rods and finally get all the remaining orange removed.
With the gearbox and steering costing about 2/3 what I had budgeted I can now also afford to get new rear spring leafs made and fitted which will relive the bottoming out issue.
Next year is looking to be a fantastic year for driving with a properly sorted engine, quiet gearbox and precise steering making for a nice driving experience.
I feel rather satisfied. Photos to follow. _________________ Richard |
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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All sounding very positive!
after all the work you have carried out you deserve a bit of luck like this..
Kev |
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colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Great news and I particularly like your argument to justify spending on the springs. I will let you do the legwork and hope that you can enlighten us on a Scottish manufacturer for springs. If I don't replace the back ones on my Austin soon I fear they will snap. |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:53 am Post subject: |
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colwyn500 wrote: | Great news and I particularly like your argument to justify spending on the springs. I will let you do the legwork and hope that you can enlighten us on a Scottish manufacturer for springs. If I don't replace the back ones on my Austin soon I fear they will snap. |
I think I gave the wrong impression there. I don't need new springs entirely, I just need to add a leaf to the rear to firm it up.
I'll still need to find a local manufacturer of course. Maybe I'll do that instead of doing any productive work _________________ Richard |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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I've been given some key steel and a new bolt and now all I need to do is spend a few hours fettling to get the steering slop sorted. All very good fun.
Some gearbox photos
the front of the box
and the rear
onto which the brake drum/output UJ assembly fits
Note: the toothed wheel is the sprag brake. A peg engages with this to prevent roll back on hill starts!
The pegs holding the brake shoes are rather worn - and being replaced
3rd gears ... rather worn on the ends but is the wear on the meshing face which made the noise
The selector forks are also worn and will be refaced
_________________ Richard |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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and 2015 brings a pile of repaired and remade parts ....
Here's where I am (photos to follow)
Gearbox dismantled
- new gears for 3rd & 3rd/4th
- gear selector forks refaced
- transmission brake drum skimmed
- new bearings and seals
- brake shoes re-drilled to square them up and new mounting pins made to suit
- propshaft and slip joint into gearbox skimmed and refaced to remove as much slop as possible
Steering column and box
- paint stripped to find A&O markings and original green paint
- new key steel to properly fit pitman arm which removed all the extra play in steering (now 2.5" rather than 12")
- steering box and control arms painted in green to match rest of car
-new mounting bolts made so column is now solidly mounted.
Steering mounted ignition and throttle controls
- tubes removed, straightened and trued
- refitted ready for complete reassembly
Next I will be getting the gearbox reassembled and then I'll refit it which will allow me to see how much material I can have put onto the transmission brake shoes as well as redesign the linkage system so there is no 'stretch' in any of the joints.
In the meantime I've, hopefully, sorted the leaking fuel tap with a bit of polishing of the mating surface and a few other bits and bobs. _________________ Richard |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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RichardD wrote: |
In the meantime I've, hopefully, sorted the leaking fuel tap with a bit of polishing of the mating surface and a few other bits and bobs. |
So I go to speak to the place I got the fuel tap from and they tell me the problem is the amount of ethanol in petrol causing degradation in the brass tap and most taps now only last a year or 2 at most
It seems I've been very lucky that the float bowl is not susceptible to ethanol rot and that I've emptied it before laying it up for more than a few weeks.
More research finds a range of additives including Millers EPS which is tested and approved by The Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs. This is not a cheap fix, at almost 13p per litre of fuel treated but when compared to the cost of replacing the carb or parts or having irreplaceable parts made it is cheap. _________________ Richard |
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colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Richard, I was a bit sceptical that alcohol can damage brass, but having looked into it I find that corrosion is actually caused by the impurities in the fuel which are very difficult to remove during production. These include chlorides and of course. water; water is further absorbed by the alcohol as the fuel ages.
As a side issue, alcohol fuel contains less energy than petrol, so as consumers I believe we are being short changed.
My old Austin, which used to start in any weather or temperature, is nowadays disinclined to do so when temperatures are low. Alcohol effectively suppresses the volatility of the fuel and this is confirmed by the fact that I discovered that a quick run over the manifold with a blowtorch has it starting first time.
Good luck with the (presumably) new tap.
PS. Now reading that modern additives to fuel have increased volatility....puzzled .
Last edited by colwyn500 on Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:20 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6319 Location: Derby
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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Richard. As you know I am fairly new to this forum - just 1 month - so I have been reading over past threads to familiarise myself with various projects. I have been more than a little impressed by your tenacity and determination to not let this build defeat you.
I have always hoped that one day I might be able to afford a veteran car for the rather narrow ambition of completing the London to Brighton run. Whilst I realise that such a car would need to be pre 1905, your experiences are I feel a good insight into what I would be taking on.
Congratulations for bringing such a wonderful old car back to good health. |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Photo time
Old v New : 3rd/4th gear
The fixed part of 3rd gear - note the meshing nose of the new one has been rounded before case hardening (they did both sides by mistake!)
Spot the wear pattern!
Both of the old v new
re-faced selector forks
New transmission brake drum mounting pin
Skimmed drum
Here you can see how material had to be removed to try to even it up
_________________ Richard |
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