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1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mk1
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Rootes Group & Original Companies (Hillman, Humber, Singer, Sunbeam, Commer etc)
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20263
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love the Tiger Will, seeing one taking part and being given some welly in the recent Tour of Cheshire was a joy - a proper handful Cool



from http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17036

RJ
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Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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XL391



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 147
Location: The Red Side of Liverpool

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Rick!

Yes, they are a bit of a handful with all that torque and the short wheelbase!

This video shows the Tiger in the 1965 Monte Carlo Rally, Peter Harper working hard...
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Will

1972 Daimler Sovereign 4.2 Series 1
1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mk1
1968 Triumph 1300
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XL391



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 147
Location: The Red Side of Liverpool

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as I said the other week, I decided to move the Tiger to my lock up which is warmer, dryer and a bit more secure. The journey was the first one it had been on in 40 years and was uneventful. The old girl didn't shake herself to bits en route, as I had feared! She deposited just a small amount of bodywork on the trailer...















So, all safe and sound with the rest of the fleet.

On the Saturday just gone we decided to get it onto our ramp and have a good look at the underside. I have to say, I was absolutely dreading it...



Yes, it's bad. But not as bad as we thought. The outer 6 inches of the car like the sills, outer floor pans are dissolving/dissolved. The inner 'core' of the car, the cruciform, both chassis legs, inner floor pans, most of the boot floor and spare wheel well are all good. Even the rear spring hangers are solid!

RH sill (or lack of...)





This is the LHR spring hanger behind the LHR wheel



And its opposite number on the RHS



This is the RHF join (or lack of) between the sill, cruciform and inner wing



This will be a very tricky repair, this is the RHR Inner sill where it meets the spring hanger inboard.



This shows the cruciform, the only real concerns being the exhaust holes, shown left and right



So, lots of work but nothing unexpected. However, due to the difficulty of some of the repairs, I'm not going to tackle the bodywork myself. I'm going to entrust it to a bodywork guy we know well who insists on nothing except perfection. He has done work, including full restorations, for a few of the guys here and his work is excellent. I will be doing everything else however.

I had been on the look out for some decent second hand rust free doors, quite hard to come by. One vendor in California wanted nearly $400 per door (a bit more than the going rate) and $450 shipping on top! Imagine my surprise last week when I found, 50 miles away, a pair of rust free doors for the sum of 75 each (quite a bit less than the going rate!) and a boot lid for 30! Very happy with that...





This thread may go a bit quiet for now as I have other things to do (black Jag XJ) but as soon as stripping begins I'll update you.



Thanks for reading.
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Will

1972 Daimler Sovereign 4.2 Series 1
1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mk1
1968 Triumph 1300
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20263
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Finding those doors was a proper score!

RJ
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Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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XL391



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 147
Location: The Red Side of Liverpool

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was Rick, still can't believe my luck! They are from the later Alpine Series V which are square cornered whereas mine are Series IV which are round cornered. It's not too difficult to modify them though. I fully expected them to be plastered with filler for that money, I couldn't find any!
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Will

1972 Daimler Sovereign 4.2 Series 1
1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mk1
1968 Triumph 1300
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XL391



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 147
Location: The Red Side of Liverpool

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right. Big update.

I decided to part company with the Black Jag after having my head well and truly turned by this when it moved into the Man Cave.



A brief history lesson first. The car was bought by my Dad in January of 1972. The only picture I have of the car back in the day is this one at the L'arc de Triomphe in 1972.



The car went for a respray around 1975. Unfortunately the guy doing it broke his legs in a Motorcycle crash and the car languished at his place for a number of years. Around 1977 my Mum and Dad bought their first (and only) home. The Tiger was put into the garage in a semi stripped state and was forgotten about, as can be seen in the picture below. You can just make it out in the garage behind the Jag.



In 1989, at the height of the Classic Car boom of the time, the car was removed from its shelter. It was still in remarkably sound condition as can be seen below.



She moved to a garage at my Nan and Grandad's not long after. However, after the garage was broken into, a forced extended stay outside meant she was doused in Waxoyl, both internally and externally. She went back under cover in 1996.



Anyway, fast forward to the present, I moved her to the Man Cave last year but I couldn't start work.
I wanted to keep her original registration number but she had 'fell off' the DVLA system when it was computerised in the early 80's. I applied to the DVLA and the Owners Club meaning the car had to stay in one piece until it had been inspected by a Club delegate on behalf of the DVLA. This was completed over Christmas meaning work could start after the OK was given from the Club delegate.

First step was wiring loom removal, then the dash and other remaining interior fittings.











I was desperate to keep the Dashboard Crash Pad and I thought it would simply unbolt. However, it is bonded straight to the body underneath the front Windscreen.



Undeterred, I got the knives and scrapers out and a couple of hours later it was free, revealing virgin Arctic White paint beneath it! This will be used to get the colour bang on before soda blasting.



Next job to tackle was the big challenge, engine and gearbox removal. The front suspension crossmember is held on with four bolts. I had been soaking these from the top inside the engine bay since the car arrived there in June last year so these came out without any issues and the front suspension was wheeled away into the corner.



Then it was onto the engine and gearbox. The boot was ballasted with 100kg of sand before the nose was raised nearly 6 feel into the air.



The engine was then secured to the hoist and the mounts were all released before carefully lowering down onto the engine cradle, which was nowhere near man enough for the cast iron boat anchor and gearbox!









So, with all that out the way there leaves the rear axle to come off and that's the body stripped.
I was told to remove the front wings prior to blasting because of the damage behind the wings. However, advice from people who have restored these have advised against cutting the wings off and instead de-stitching the entire front wings, scuttle, nose panel and radiator panel and take the whole front assembly as one section. I'm going to weigh that up in the morning before getting the spot weld drill out...
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Will

1972 Daimler Sovereign 4.2 Series 1
1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mk1
1968 Triumph 1300
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1040
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic topic. Wonderful to have a father owning a Sunbeam Tiger.... and then still have the same car! Surely that is one car never to leave the household I would think.
The most exciting car my father ever had was a Triumph 2500 TC.
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XL391



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 147
Location: The Red Side of Liverpool

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Badhuis! It certainly won't be getting sold, at least until I'm in the box. Dad is 73 this year so it'd be great for him to see it when it's done. He met my Mum in this car and they also drove to Spain in it. She passed away a couple of years ago so I hope this will bring back lots of good memories for him when it's done.

I love the Triumph 2000/2500, I was so close to buying a Mk1 just before Christmas but the seller messed me about so much I don't think he wanted to sell it. Definitely on the bucket list for whe this is done though. Very Happy
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Regards,

Will

1972 Daimler Sovereign 4.2 Series 1
1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mk1
1968 Triumph 1300
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1040
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My brother and me convinced my father back in 1981 to buy the Triumph. He did and got a bad car.... Only three years old but rust everywhere, running on 5 cylinders most of the time. But it got me hooked, I had a 2000 Mk2 not long after, followed by a Mk1 (still have it) and a 2500 Mk2 (sold).

My Mk1 has rear arches with a lot of rot, the previous owner patched it up heavily with filler. Skillfully done, I did not see it and he lied to me about it.
Someone from Club Triumph took the trouble last year to start producing front and rear wings again, also sills and inner wings. I am awaiting delivery of rear inner and outer wings so I can finally start repairing my car which has been in the shed for 10 yeas or so.

Sorry for hijacking your Tiger topic!
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XL391



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Location: The Red Side of Liverpool

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while since the last update. The rear axle was removed from the car a couple of days after the last update, couldn't really come to terms with how heavy it was! Two of us were unable to lift it...





Anyway, after removal of the doors I was left with a bare shell with just a few bits and pieces left to remove.





It was decided with the guy restoring the bodywork that I would remove the front wings prior to soda blasting as there was quite a bit of corrosion behind them. Speaking to a few people who had restored Tigers I was advised to remove the entire front 'clip' as one assembly. So, I bought lots of spot weld drills and set to work.





Anyway, after a few months work and hundreds of spot welds, the front clip was off!





It has revealed plenty of work underneath the wings, the left hand inner wing and A-pillar being the worst part.



In other news, I was having a debate with myself with regards to the engine. I had been advised to put the original Ford 260 V8 into storage and upgrade to a 302 as parts are cheaper and they are more powerful straight out of the box. However, these days very few Tigers have their original 260s fitted to them. Also, I don't want a ferocious beast that would try to kill me at the first opportunity so I'm thinking of keeping the 260 with some bolt on tuning parts such as a cam, carb and maybe higher compression pistons and tubular exhaust headers.

I knew the engine was seized solid since the late 80s. With this in mind I decided to fill the combustion chambers and then the entire engine with diesel. I'm going to let it sit for a couple of months to let it soak through everywhere. Hopefully it'll work...





So, the next stage is soda blasting. The car goes in the next few weeks and then straight to the body shop to begin the recovery phase. I just hoe there is some car left to fix after blasting!


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Regards,

Will

1972 Daimler Sovereign 4.2 Series 1
1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mk1
1968 Triumph 1300
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20263
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant, a proper in-depth stripdown, look forward to following progress.

RJ
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1101
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice photos...

Without trawling the threads, I recall, whilst driving as a proper London Transport bus driver...without benefit of power steering, but with a proper pre-selector gearbox....[to give a time frame]......being stuck in traffic one day, to have a Sunbeam Tiger pull up alongside. Inside, were two of the Met's burliest-but-finest.......it was a hard top...and, lying on the parcel shelf was a light box, with 'Police, Stop!' on it. No other markings, an unmarked Met Police car!!

I wonder how many they had?
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XL391



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys! Alistair, the Met had four Mk1 Tigers and six Mk2 Tigers (out of just ten factory RHDs). You're right, they were totally unmarked apart from the light box on the rear and a spot light and bell on the front bumper. I believe they were fairly reliable apart from clutch problems. Leeds also had a pair of Mk1s.
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Regards,

Will

1972 Daimler Sovereign 4.2 Series 1
1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mk1
1968 Triumph 1300
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XL391



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 147
Location: The Red Side of Liverpool

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another update for you gents.

Last time the car was ready for its trip to the soda blasters. So, after sorting out some transport to get it there and back, I fitted some castors to a pallet and we strapped it down.



The trip was uneventful, the car was put straight into the booth and the front clip removed again for work to start straight away. To say I was nervous about what would be revealed is an understatement...





Anyway, a few weeks later we returned to pick it up. On the whole, I'd say I was pleasantly surprised about what came back. There is the odd sixties bodge here and there but no showstoppers, no heartbreakers.











So, after a thorough check over I had a list of repair panels to order. I did this just before Xmas and they're due to arrive in mid February, all being well.

Sadly, replacement scuttle panels are no longer available but I've managed to locate a very good replacement. They are a nightmare to repair because they are double skinned and mine had gone around the vent apertures and the drip channel, amongst other places.

I'm not doing the bodywork, it was originally going away to somebody's place to be done and I was going to crack on with my little Triumph while the Tiger was away but it may be staying put now and getting done at our place, hopefully starting in February when the panels arrive. I don't want to have two dismantled cars in our place as it wouldn't be fair on the other guys who share it. So the Triumph is going to stay covered up in the corner while my attention turns to something else, that being the engine.



As I said previously, i'd been having a debate with myself about keeping the original 260 (4.2 litre) V8 or putting it into storage, as advised, and fitting the 302 (5.0 litre) V8.

The 260 is seized solid so I filled the cylinder bores and then filled the whole engine up to the heads with diesel. That was back in October. Sadly it appears it hasn't worked.

Because of how long the car has been in the family, not to mention the fact that it's the original engine, I'm pretty much decided that I want to keep the original. I think I'll take greater pleasure out of hearing that roaring away as opposed to a different engine that could have come from anywhere.



So, once I've stripped the secondhand doors I've got and took those, the scuttle panel, the bonnet and boot lid to the blasters, I'm going to strip the 260 down in the hope that it can be salvaged. I spoke to one of the previous owners from the sixties around 10 years ago and he said he had to have one of the bores sleeved due to damage, maybe this has something to do with it, I don't know. I've got two excellent books I'm reading at the minute. One is how to rebuild the Ford small block family of engines with some great do'd and don't's while the other is a period book that's been reprinted called 'Performance Tuning The Sunbeam Tiger'. The latter basically lists the official Rootes dealer performance parts offered for sale in period and the work required to boost the engine performance. I'd like to do it this way, even if it works out more expensive. I don't want a crazy amount of power, just a bit more.

So, that's where I am at the minute. Fingers crossed the 260 is ok to growl again...



In other news, I went to Harrogate in between Xmas and New Year. The Tiger was originally registered here back in May 1965 and, unbelievably, we were staying not even 2 minutes drive away from the first owners house! So hoping he was still there, it was a long shot, I knocked on the door. The current occupiers hadn't been there long but they bought it off a guy who'd bought the property back in the sixties and they had his sons details. He isn't the name in the log book, but the place was flats for a while in the 60s. I've emailed the guy and he's going to dig out his father's paperwork to see if he can provide me with any clues. I'm not hopeful, but you never know.

I also did a bit more detective work regarding the previous owners. The guy from Harrogate sold the Tiger to a garage in Leeds in 1966. Looking at Google maps the garage is long gone. However, I did find the following pictures of it on a Historical Leeds website.








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Regards,

Will

1972 Daimler Sovereign 4.2 Series 1
1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mk1
1968 Triumph 1300
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20263
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That'll be great when it's done - I agree, hearing the same engine that your dad did will make driving it all the more rewarding.

RJ
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