Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
|
Author |
Message |
Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22455 Location: UK
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
47Jag
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bothwell, Scotland
|
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rick,
I think it will be the same 'Special Ops' workshop that did the lightweights. Don't you think it's a bit cynical on Jaguars part cashing in on these iconic cars. What will be next? Alloy XK120s, SS100s
Art |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SV8Predator
Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 136 Location: Further up the creek
|
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
47Jag wrote: | Rick,
I think it will be the same 'Special Ops' workshop that did the lightweights. Don't you think it's a bit cynical on Jaguars part cashing in on these iconic cars. What will be next? Alloy XK120s, SS100s
Art |
Why is it "cynical"?
Can you name another manufacturer that is so interested, and proactive, in its heritage?
The cost, to research the history, research the build methods, research the BOM, etc, etc, nevermind translating all that into actually building another new car, means that it must be costing JLR an absolute fortune just to be considering such a project.
Who's the cynic? _________________ 2000 Jaguar XJ8 4.0 LWB
1974 Jensen Interceptor Mk III
1969 Jensen Interceptor Mk I |
|
Back to top |
|
|
norustplease
Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Posts: 779 Location: Lancashire
|
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have read that Land Rover are apparently going to restore a number of Series 1 Landrovers to mark the end of the line for the Defender. _________________ 1953 Citroen Traction
1964 Volvo PV544
1957 Austin A55 Mk 1
Boring Tucson SUV |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rich5ltr
Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 680 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's all just personal opinion but for me this approach by jaguar devalues the 1950s XKSS cars. I remember reading about these as a small lad and the excitement of seeing one for the first time. Now days you will certainly see several parked up at any Goodwood meeting, mostly plastic but some made of metal however that's irrelevant. It's taken away the mystic and the magic - the same as seeing an AC Cobra (replica usually as they all are). I would rather Jaguar left these unused chassis numbers unused. Because that's what they are. They're not "lost" XKSSs they are simply numbers in a book. All in my opinion of course. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ashley
Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 1426 Location: Near Stroud, Glos
|
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Porsche are frantically appointing heritage dealers, restoring their older cars and training mechanics to work on them.
There's big money in old supercars and Jaguar have an amazing history followed by BL and some not so great cars. They need to sell more of the current cars and I'm sure heritage will help. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland
|
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
They are being constructed by the original manufacturer to the original plans using authentic methods and materials.
They will be as good as the ones made in the original run...probably better.
If I had the millions of pounds necessary, I would rather have one of these as it would feel more useable and I wouldn't be worried that it was non-original in some respects, as all the older cars surely must be by now.
It would be completely original. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4114 Location: South Cheshire
|
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Looks good to me if it brings the current value of these cars down to a more realistic price ; all the better!
Dave |
|
Back to top |
|
|
colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland
|
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ukdave2002 wrote: | Looks good to me if it brings the current value of these cars down to a more realistic price ; all the better!
Dave |
It won't do that Dave, or if it does,there will be no discernible difference in price to "the common man". All of these sorts of cars are now investments; like artworks and Mayfair mansions. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22455 Location: UK
|
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think the originals will keep their values, collectors will recognise them for what they are - vehicles with history (however murky, as can be the case with this type of car).
The newly-built cars will probably go to a different breed of buyer altogether, although some may find their way to people who already have an original, but don't want to pile mileage onto it. Likely as not, the continuation cars will have their own very different values going forward.
RJ _________________ Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
OCC & classic car merchandise (Austin, Ford ++):
https://www.redbubble.com/people/OldClassicCar/shop |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans
|
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have already posted this story elsewhere, but here goes. The history of the XKSS is that the D-type was at the end of its life and no longer competitive. Jaguar were unable to register the D-type as a road-going model in the USA and so it was not permitted to race in SCCA events. So Jaguar decided to convert the left-over short nose shells into sports cars, with luxuries unheard of such as a windscreen, wipers and a vestigial hood.
Jaguar, just like Ferrari, were economical with the truth though. To qualify as a "production" car 50 had to be built, so Jaguar built XKSS 701, 704, 707, 710 etc. We have, according to Jaguar maths, now built 10 cars. Chassis numbers were allocated to the short nose bodies lying around and then, in February 1957, came the big fire. Jaguar had built XKSS 728 and so recommenced with XKSS 754. No, 26 divided by 3 doesn't go, but we are talking Jaguar maths here. So, now Jaguar, after a break of 59 years, are finishing off the cars they started in 1957.
Now as I understand it, since these are actually "original" XKSS models but just ones that weren't finished because of the fire, they can be road registered and if one follows the logic through they will not require seat belts, air bags, nor all of the other gubbins that encumbers our cars today. That is the information I have, but it remains to be proved. Whatever, nine XKSS models will soon be built, and rather like the six lightweight E-types that were built numbering seven (you forgot the prototype numbered 0 didn't you?) where the first was built by RS Panels and is retained by Jaguar, rumour has it that this time the first is being built by Pearsons.
So there you have it; nine bright and shiny 59 year old cars. Simple peeps. The price? Well, rumoured to be £1.32 million each. I can get you one built for £400,000 if you wish, but remember you are paying £900,000 for the chassis plate here. Incidentally, there is one of the originals on the market at a cool £10 million at the moment.
Incidentally, I see your train of thought, 47jag, but in the case of the Lightweights the chassis numbers have always existed, it was just that Jaguar only built 12 of the 18 foreseen. Similarly here, Jaguar are filling in the chassis numbers already allocated in the day, and before you ask this does not include the spaces between the numbers actually allocated. This cannot apply to alloy XK120s, nor other models.
To finish off on a lighter note, I heard a wonderful story about registering the six new lightweights, but although the story came from a usually reliable source take it for what you will. They were not able to be registered in the UK unless they passed the IVA test as a replica, nor apparently in the USA. However it seems that one state has allowed them to be registered as 1963 cars. Once that registration is complete, it would follow that they are 1963 cars and can be reimported to Europe or registered in another state in the USA. And I don't know if you are aware, but the new Proteus C-type needs no emissions control. I had no idea until recently that emissions are not based on the age of the car but the engine only. Life do get complicated, don't it!
Last edited by lowdrag on Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland
|
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
There's a lot of important points there Lowdrag, that I hadn't thought of. Perhaps these cars will only be able to be for investment and track purposes. The factory can describe them any way they want but the fact is that they are being constructed in full from modern, raw materials.
As such, being new cars, logic would say that the design and systems fitted are unlikely to pass current safety legislation. As a minimum, seatbelts would surely be needed? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans
|
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not so, it seems. My E-type is 1961, so I don't have nor ever will have seat belts. The XKSS I have however, is a replica based around the wreck of a 1967 E-type, so seat belts are compulsory. The new - sorry, now completed original cars - will be built to exactly the same standard as the originals, same gauge alloy for the tub, same engines, DCO3 carburettors, (not of course DCOE3 like my replica, just a slight matter of £7,500 difference) and so on. If these are 1957 cars, then the 1/1/65 rule will not apply. All of this is conjecture though, so we'll see how it comes out in the wash. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
alanb
Joined: 10 Sep 2012 Posts: 516 Location: Berkshire.
|
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The history as I read it was that the 9 unfinished cars were lost to the Browns lane fire, I can't imagine Jaguar hanging on to the charred and twisted remains of 9 part built cars for 60 years. Therefore the building or re-creating of the cars must be from scratch, in which case they will be new cars no mater how old the design and thereby be subject to modern regulations. _________________ old tourer
Morris 8 two seater |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans
|
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To say I hesitated to reply in the first place is exactly what the last post is all about. One has to understand the rules and regulations before commenting on whether it is a new car or a rebuilt original. Yet still people don't understand what the whole thing is about.
1. Jaguar created 18 chassis numbers for lightweight E-types but built 12. Ergo, the latest 6 cars are new cars.
2. Jaguar assigned chassis numbers to existing shells for the XKSS model but these were burned in the 1957 fire and therefore these cars, however subjectively, existed and theoretically still exist.
Ergo, the nine being built are actually 1957 cars.
Please don't try and provoke me into a further reply because it won't happen. I've been writing Jaguar articles for 20 years and deeply involved in the Jaguar world for over 30 years. If you can't follow the logic, however, complicated it may be, then don't even try. You might sleep better at night.
Please remember that Aston Martin "found" four DB4 chassis in the yard and built the Sanction 4 Zagatos. I don't think that there is any difference, do you? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
php BB powered © php BB Grp.
|